PTFE

Robbie Alexander · Sep 30, 2003

Thoughts comments and questions about PTFE.

What do you think, is it a good Idea to have "some" in the oil at all times, or under certain conditions?
What are the benefits vs. harmful effects?

Ken2 · Sep 30, 2003

Great on skillets, not in engines.

Ken

MolaKule · Sep 30, 2003

Amen. Makes a decent grease, but has not been shown to offer any advantages in engine oils.

Doug Hillary · Sep 30, 2003

Hi,
we are all poorly eddjukaterd in Australia and I always thought PTFE stood for;

Poor Treatment For Engines

Well we are always learning!

Regards

Ken42 · Sep 30, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,
we are all poorly eddjukaterd in Australia and I always thought PTFE stood for;

Poor Treatment For Engines

Well we are always learning!

Well you know we in the U.S. are poorly eddjukaterd tooo and that is what I thought it stood for

[ October 01, 2003, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: Ken42 ]

Bror Jace · Sep 30, 2003

Yep, no ejimikated lubophile takes PTFE seriously as an internal comblustion engine lubricant anymore.

Dyno tests show reduced friction for more power and mileage but UOAs (one on this site using Tufoil) seem to indicate increased wear at the same time. The theory is that the teflon particles cause localized lubrication starvation and that's where the additional wear comes from.

--- Bror Jace

biscuitboy · Oct 1, 2003

I am here to tell you--do not put PTFE in your motor, especially a Honda. A few years ago (before I became ejikated on this site), I used a Fram filter treated with PTFE for one oil change. A few thousand miles later, my 93 Accord engine with 100K miles croaked. Oil passages clogged.

John in the ATL · Oct 1, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Robbie Alexander:
Thoughts comments and questions about PTFE.

What do you think, is it a good Idea to have "some" in the oil at all times, or under certain conditions?
What are the benefits vs. harmful effects?

A suspended solid in the oil that will clog the oil filter. Hmmm.

Teflon must be heated to 1000 deg F to adhere to metal. The engine would be cooked long before that.

Robbie Alexander · Oct 4, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Yep, no ejimikated lubophile takes PTFE seriously as an internal comblustion engine lubricant anymore.
-*-*-*-
Im no edjucationed persone, I'ma here justa lernen tooo.

Dyno tests show reduced friction for more power and mileage but UOAs (one on this site using Tufoil) seem to indicate increased wear at the same time. The theory is that the teflon
-*-*-*-*-
This does not compute with me. \ /
* *
|
___

particles cause localized lubrication starvation and that's where the additional wear comes from.

???? ~~~ wHAT??
Could there be a way to overcome even in theory this problem whatever it is?
--- Bror Jace

Bror Jace · Oct 5, 2003

Robbie, speaking of "not computing" can you please try your question again ... clean, this time, with no UBB stuff?

If you're asking me what's going on, the teflon under high temps supposedly coagulates and clogs some passages leading to oil starvation in tight parts of the motor ... causing wear.

When the engine is cold and taken apart, the clogs are often gone and it's hard to tell why there was a problem. This is the theory anyway.

But the important thing to remember is that it is pretty much a proven fact (lab testing) that adding PTFE = increased engine wear.

--- Bror Jace

Robbie Alexander · Oct 6, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Robbie, speaking of "not computing" can you please try your question again ... clean, this time, with no UBB stuff?

If you're asking me what's going on, the teflon under high temps supposedly coagulates and clogs some passages leading to oil starvation in tight parts of the motor ... causing wear.
*-*-*-

I've heard that the Teflon will enlongate when heated. But I've also heard in a right formula, just like any additive it can be useful.

I think I'm gonna try a tiny widdle bit. I'm gonna probably buy an oil with some in there and add it maybe my next oil change. Maybe the one after, or maybe after I find my SI leak. then compare the wear numbers and see if they go up or WAY up, and if they do, well then I'll drain right away. I mean as long as we are doing tests here, I don't see whay I can't do one the board KNOWS will fail.

unDummy · Oct 6, 2003

PTFE caused clogging

I didn't think that there was enough to cause clogging.
Most oil passage clogging issues are from infrequent oil changes.
Or, what temp does teflon coagulate?

Too bad that I didn't grab 4 quarts of that PTFE doped superduper oil additive when kmart closed. I would've run 4 quarts at the same time, along with a Fram double guard, in my car. This would have been a great experiment.

Shannow · Oct 6, 2003

I've seen some results of Teflon treatments.

PMT - Permanent Motor Treatment stopped exhaust smoke on an R16 with 250,000km, and delayed its return until 350,000km.

Nulon E10 reduced the oil consumption on a 250c.i. falcon ute where I worked from 3 litres per week to less than 1.

Slick 50 in two of my cars made no difference whatsoever (but at least caused no apparent harm).

I'd never again put it into an engine that was non-expendable (read hopelessly oil burning, and due for a rebuild)

Doug Hillary · Oct 6, 2003

Hi,

well at least Renee was 16 and enabled for PMT

Regards
Doug

Shannow · Oct 6, 2003

LOL,

and 18 years later, they still send pamphlets to me (at my parent's address) for aeolus 7 "the woman attractant", and various ways to lengthen parts of my anatomy.

(I bought the PMT mail order, and once they had an address, then they started with all sorts of products that could also be mail ordered).

biscuitboy · Oct 7, 2003

In my situation, the engine received regular oil changes at 3,000-3,500 intervals, mostly Pennzoil or Castrol GTX 10w-30. No other explanation for the engine's clogged oil passages was/is apparent. Rock solid proof the PTFE-treated Fram filter is responsible? Nope, but very strong circumstantial evidence and a reasonable conclusion IMHO.

MolaKule · Oct 7, 2003

It is also surmized that at localized hot spots the tetrafluoroethane decomposes such that the fluorine exudes from the particle and sticks to metal causing localized pitting.

Did I mention that it makes a descent grease thickener????

[ October 08, 2003, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Robbie Alexander · Oct 7, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Shannow:
*-*-*-* I'd never again put it into an engine that was non-expendable (read hopelessly oil burning, and due for a rebuild)

What if it was an CI-4/SL rated oil?

Could there be any other reason that would make you think twice about it?

Ooooh, EEEeeekkkss, What if it was in your oil and YOU knew nothing about it?

deepsquat · Oct 8, 2003

I ran tufoil in my car summer of '02...did not increase wear, but oxidation and nitration dramatically increased..it also has a boatload of Moly in it.

Robbie Alexander · Oct 8, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by deepsquat:
I ran tufoil in my car summer of '02...did not increase wear, but oxidation and nitration dramatically increased..it also has a boatload of Moly in it.

HUMMM... Giving me more reason to go for the test.
NO increase in wear, hugh. As you have seen I do have some oil with Some Moly, may be more up to the test than I thought. I was to figure even if it did increase the wear, a 2-3000 mile then a test and by the time I have 5-6K on it maybe 8K then the results are back from the 1st test... if not good, a quick drain and maybe a flush and a hundred mile trip and another oilchange ought to get any junk out.

PTFE

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