PS fluid in VW Jetta - Wrong Type?

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Originally Posted By: brianl703
Is the Valvoline Synpower PSF sold in the USA dyed green and does it meet those specs listed in the data sheet you linked to?

I expect the answer to that is no.

The reason I would expect the Synpower PFS made and sold in Europe to be repackaged CHF11S is because there are a lot more cars in Europe that require CHF11S than there are here...and all the applications listed for that product are ones that use CHF11S.


If you care to ask Valvoline about the compatibility of their Synpower PSF instead of just guessing, the answer is yes except for the dye color. You expect Valvoline, one of the largest lubrication producer, to repackage someone else fluid? Again, let me remind you about Valvoline 5w40 produced here in USA that no one in the beginning thought it would meet VW spec. It was the same oil before and after VW approved it. Oh yeah, it was not repackaged Castrol either.
 
Quote:
If you care to ask Valvoline about the compatibility of their Synpower PSF instead of just guessing, the answer is yes except for the dye color.


It's a moot point, they don't even make Synpower PSF anymore.

Quote:

The SynPower line of chemicals has been discontinued. With our new line of products known as our Valvoline Performance Chemicals, we have taken some of the SynPower formulations, and carried them over to our new line. The SynPower Brake Fluid is the exact same formulation, only now known as Valvoline Performance Chemicals DOT 3 and DOT 4 Synthetic Brake Fluid, labeled in a white container
, with a blue label. The SynPower Power Steering Fluid has been discontinued and the new power steering fluid is not synthetic. The new power steering fluid will meet the exact same specifications as the synthetic, only it's a conventional fluid. We apologize for this inconvenience.


As far as the new power steering fluid meeting the exact same specs as the synthetic:

Quote:
Meets GM part number 1050017 (Spec. 9985010), Chrysler Spec. 5391 and Ford Spec. M2C128C&D


All of those specs are met by any normal power steering fluid. None of them are applicable to CHF11S.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703


Quote:
Meets GM part number 1050017 (Spec. 9985010), Chrysler Spec. 5391 and Ford Spec. M2C128C&D


All of those specs are met by any normal power steering fluid. None of them are applicable to CHF11S.



The point here is not whether Valvoline is still making Synpower PSF or not. You can still find them on the shelves at some of the Checker and Napa stores. Per Valvoline it will meet the same spec as CHF11S if you ask instead of keep on guessing and doubting them. Let me remind you again and again and again about the US made Valvoline 5W40. Before VW approval, Valvoline was sure that it met or exceeds 505.1 but no one believes them.
 
Thank you.

The US-market Synpower PSF spec sheet says:

Quote:

Viscosity @ 40°C
50 cSt maximum
Viscosity @ 100°C
7 cSt minimum
Pour Point
-42°C maximum


The Euro-market Synpower PSF spec sheet says:

Quote:
Viscosity, mm2/s @ 100 ºC 6.3
Viscosity, mm2/s @ 40 ºC 18.9
Pour Point, ºC (ISO 3016) -54


cSt and mm2/s are different ways of referring to the same measurement, and would be expected to be the same if the fluids were indeed the same.

They are not.

At 40C, the US-spec has a viscosity of 50 cSt or mm2/s and the Euro-spec has a viscosity of 18.9 cSt or mm2/s.

Therefore these fluids are not the same.
 
On top of that, according to the Viscosity Index calculator the US-spec fluid has a viscosity index of 96.


Ewww.

No wonder they discontinued this junk.

No, wait, they didn't. The current Valvoline Power Steering Fluid has the same exact specs as the US-Spec synpower fluid!

The Viscosity Index of 96 is the lowest I've ever seen for power steering fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
On top of that, according to the Viscosity Index calculator the US-spec fluid has a viscosity index of 96.

No, wait, they didn't. The current Valvoline Power Steering Fluid has the same exact specs as the US-Spec Synpower fluid!

The Viscosity Index of 96 is the lowest I've ever seen for power steering fluid.


You missed the point again. As Valvoline has stated that the current PSF meet the same spec as the old Synpower PSF even though they are different composition. The old US made Synpower PSF met the same spec as the European made Synpower PSF. Their performance is the same even though Valvoline did not certify it.

Many oils meet the same spec even though they are not of the same composition. PSF is no different. Valvoline said it has the same specs and that is good enough for me (same thing with their 5W40 before the VW approval). Of course, you can assume and expect all you want and it does not prove any thing.
 
Where did Valvoline state that? Why don't they state that on their spec sheets? Are you going to take the word of some $10/hour call center employee over what the spec sheets say?

And no, their performance is not the same because the viscosity index on the US-made product is inferior to the European-made product or in fact any other PSF I've looked at.

One of CHF11S's unique characteristics is the extremely high viscosity index.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Where did Valvoline state that? Why don't they state that on their spec sheets? Are you going to take the word of some $10/hour call center employee over what the spec sheets say?

And no, their performance is not the same because the viscosity index on the US-made product is inferior to the European-made product or in fact any other PSF I've looked at.

One of CHF11S's unique characteristics is the extremely high viscosity index.


I got the answer from emailing Valvoline a while back, which worth a lot more to me than your assumption of what it can and can not do. Valvoline knows what manufacturer specs their products can meet without having to have a manufacturer approval.

The extremely high viscosity is not necessary for auto power steering usage. CHF11S is for central hydraulic systems, level control, hydro pneumatic suspension, and shock absorber. Synpower PSF is for power steering only and this is where it met the requirement of VW. The Champion fluid listed in previous post also has a VI of only 140 and it met VW/Audi spec. It also only has a pour point of -40C/F.
 
Quote:
CHF11S is for central hydraulic systems, level control, hydro pneumatic suspension, and shock absorber. Synpower PSF is for power steering only and this is where it met the requirement of VW.


Really?

From the spec sheet for the Euro Valvoline Synpower PSF:

Quote:
Valvoline Synpower Power Steering Fluid is a synthetic power steering fluid suitable as a special
product for several car manufacturers. The product is meant for central hydraulic systems on
passenger cars and trucks, power steering units, leveling systems, and even shock absorbers.


These two products, European-made Synpower PSF and US-made Synpower PSF are NOT THE SAME and DO NOT MEET THE SAME SPECS.

I rest my case.
 
You got the wrong case and way off topic. The topic here is US made Synpower PSF met the requirement for VW power steering fluid. We are not discussing central hydraulic systems nor shock absorbers. So, if you ask Valvoline is US made Synpower PSF suitable for VW, the answer will be yes. If you ask Valvoline is the current Valvoline PSF the same as US made Synpower PSF, the answer will be yes. Valvoline knows their products, you don't. Court is adjourned.
 
So you posted an irrelevant spec sheet to start it off. I'll also point out that there's more than one VW power steering spec, and one of them can be met by any run-of-the-mill power steering fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
So you posted an irrelevant spec sheet to start it off. I'll also point out that there's more than one VW power steering spec, and one of them can be met by any run-of-the-mill power steering fluid.



It is not a irrelevant spec sheet. It was what I used when I asked Valvoline between the compatibility between the US made Synpower PSF and Euro made Synpower PSF. Valvoline said that they are the same and is suitable for VW power steering system, and this is why I stocked up when Checkers had a sale of $1/qt. I don't know if the current Valvoline PSF will meet the VW spec or not and I don't care since I have a lot of Synpower PSF left. Again the topic here is what is OK for a VW power steering system, read the first post.

I am running it right now in my 03 Golf for over 45K miles with no problem so in my mind Valvoline is correct with their advise. I have also stocked up on Valvoline 5W40 at $1/qt instead of $8-9/qt of Castrol 505.01 oils. My VW can't tell the different between the two.
 
You could probably have used $1/qt Mercon/Dexron III ATF in your VW's power steering for 45k without a problem.

As far as the first post goes, that sounds less like a fluid problem and more like there's air in the system due to being run low on fluid. Get all the air out and it'll probably work fine with fryer oil in there (for a while, anyway..)
 
Well by now most of you know where I stand on these sorts of questions. Use what the OEM tells you to use otherwise there could be problems, maybe not immediately but at some later point in time.
For example: Do you know what seal materials are used in the system?
Do you have any data showing that the 'replacement' fluids have been tested with those materials against the original OEM specifications?
I could be wrong but I suspect that the answer is no.
 
I personally don't have any data showing compatibility with seal materials are used by VW, but I know Valvoline does since they do make a direct replacement for the OEM fluid. If they say their other product is also compatible then it is good enough for me since I am in no position to argue about their products. There is no other $1/qt synthetic blend PSF/ATF that I know of other than Valvoline Synpower PSF. So, for the same money why run dino PSF when you can run a synthetic blend that is recommended by the lube maker.
 
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They SAY their other product is also compatible. The problem is that it's not WRITTEN in the other product's data sheet.

In the unlikely event that Valvoline's product damaged your P/S system, it could be proven that it did, and you made a claim against them, they will probably say that the applicable spec sheet (for the US-made product) does not state the product meets the spec your car requires and therefore you have misused the product.

I go by the general rule that if it's not in writing, it didn't happen or isn't true...because you can't often prove it when it's not.
 
How would YOU prove that it was the PSF fluid and not something else? With the cost to prove that it was the Valvoline PSF fluid and the legal fee I could buy a new vehicle. If my PS failed 10K from now (185K miles on the vehicle) is it the fluid or something else? Valvoline is not a fly by night outfit so their word is good enough for me. I certain would heed the words of Valvoline more than anyone else on this board.

I use a lot of Redline lubes and they are not approved by any auto manufacturers. If I ask for everything in writing then I would miss out on a lot of good thing. I will observe the OEM recommendation while under warranty for most of the time. After which, I will turn to the aftermarket for a better product with writing or not.
 
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