Proof Chevy V8's beat blown 4-cylinders - Focus RS

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Its not like ford had a choice. Would a v8 fit under the hood of a focus? And even if it did, what would it do to its weight distribution and handling?


Yet, Mercedes can shoehorn a 6.3L AMG in a C63.

I know "Ford is not Mercedes," I'm just saying.

Agreed that it would make an incredibly nose-heavy car, that dives and has trouble being controlled over hard braking. I had that issue once. The 350 V-8 Camrose also had nose-heavy issues. The 2.8L V6 version, which I also had and loved, did not.
 
Originally Posted By: Brasileno
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Its not like ford had a choice. Would a v8 fit under the hood of a focus? And even if it did, what would it do to its weight distribution and handling?


Yet, Mercedes can shoehorn a 6.3L AMG in a C63.

True. They did at one point. Working on that thing must be a real PITA. They have since switched to a turbo-charged 4.0.

I suspect the Focus has a smaller under the hood space though, especially it being a FWD-based platform.
 
When I was on active duty with the USAF I had a 1993 (first year of the 4th Generation) Camaro Z28, with the LT1 5.7L engine and T-56 6-speed manual. It always surprised me how good the fuel economy was on long trips, considering how big the engine was. But I don't think it was more than about 24 or 25 MPG. Around town it was about 15-16.
 
CAL%20CHEVY.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Maybe this just means pushrod V-8's make sense.



Of COURSE pushrod engines "make sense" for passenger cars. The whole idea that they're in any way inferior is just a fabrication of the automotive press who only think in terms of "wow, that's different it must be better," and is a holdover from the 80s. It sure didn't originate with engineers in charge of building on-highway cars.

Pushrods and overhead cams open and close the valves, that's all. Neither one has a distinct advantage below about 7000 RPM, and guess what? Most passenger car engines never go north of 7000 RPM anyway, especially the larger ones. Above that, the lower inertia of an overhead-cam system has an advantage, as does being able to put 4 smaller valves in a cylinder instead of 2 large ones. But if you can stay below 7000 RPM, pushrods win hands-down in terms of compactness of the overall engine, ESPECIALLY V8 and v6 engines. Just compare a Ford Modular to a GM LSx, or a Chrysler Hemi to a Chrysler 4.7 SOHC to see the difference.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
In the snow belt, AWD > rear wheel drive.


Or add any slippery condition AWD wins.....

The reality is RS is a high sprung vehicle. My guess is once you start driving a v8 Chevy somwahat aggressive and Ford RS similar the MPG becomes similar.

I find it interesting the MPG is actually similar to the Subaru STI in Ford RS. The Ford RS has a modern engine while STI is still using a 10+ year old turbo Boxer.
 
Nice to see Chevy lightening the Camaro SS by some 230 lbs. That helps to get them closer to the 1998-2002 LS1 4th gens that were around 3400-3500 lbs.
 
There's another consideration here. I'd be willing to bet that the person that would purchase one of these cars would not even look at the other one.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.


I'd lay a bet on the Camaro. It's a beast on the track.
 
While bench racing is fun, it really depends on the track.

So same track, same driver and different cars, it comes down to how does the car match up to the given track.

Not saying either would win. I'm saying there are probably tracks where each would have an advantage.

Not to mention conditions. Get a little rain that day and it may upset the car that doesn't handle the wet as well as the other...

OK, I'll take off the Capt. Obvious uniform now
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.


I'd lay a bet on the Camaro. It's a beast on the track.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.


I'd lay a bet on the Camaro. It's a beast on the track.

Yeah, the old one was very very quick on the track, and the new one is a bit lighter and comes with 1g tires. I assume the Focus will come on 1g tires as well, but unless the track is tight enough to make the AWD count for something, I would bet on the Camaro too.
The V6 Camaro with more normal tires is gets something like .87g cornering. I assume on tires of that grip level the Focus would start make up alot of time in the corner exits compared to the SS, negating the SS's hp advantage a bit.
 
In the 2016 Rolex 24 hour race at Daytona, 6 of the top 8 cars were Corvettes. Antiquated, pushrod, V8 engines.

I make no claim that Chevy V8's are the worlds best, most reliable or most powerful engines. But the Small Block V8's do have some advantages. in power to weight, complexity, race reliability and parts availability.

Drive any base model modern Corvette and while it's fast, it's not a stunning torque monster, like the supercharged Z06 is. In fact, I find them down on power.

Even so, it's hard to fault that capable, tiny V8.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
You should probably compare real life mpg, and not figures on paper.

Well, turbo's tend to return worse figures off the EPA FTP city/highway runs, so there goes your argument. This is an exploration of engineering, some care about that.


Really?!? Funny, I didn't get the memo.
 
Camaro has a weight/power ratio of 8.35 lb/HP.
Focus has a weight/power ratio of 9.71 lb/HP.
That pretty much tells the story unless they're autocrossing.
Running in the rain, though, is a great equalizer. No bet there. The Camaro could probably get close, but the driver would be working very hard at it.

Originally Posted By: javacontour
While bench racing is fun, it really depends on the track.

So same track, same driver and different cars, it comes down to how does the car match up to the given track.

Not saying either would win. I'm saying there are probably tracks where each would have an advantage.

Not to mention conditions. Get a little rain that day and it may upset the car that doesn't handle the wet as well as the other...

OK, I'll take off the Capt. Obvious uniform now
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: badtlc
and the Focus would destroy the V8 on a track. They aren't really comparable vehicles.


I'd lay a bet on the Camaro. It's a beast on the track.
 
I didn't do the math, so thanks for your work. I did think the Focus seems heavy for compact car.

While unrealistic in this age of mandatory safety and creature comforts, my idea of a hot-hatch is about 1000# less than the quoted weight of the Focus.

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Camaro has a weight/power ratio of 8.35 lb/HP.
Focus has a weight/power ratio of 9.71 lb/HP.
That pretty much tells the story unless they're autocrossing.
Running in the rain, though, is a great equalizer. No bet there. The Camaro could probably get close, but the driver would be working very hard at it.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A focus is the same price as a 6.2 camaro?

Focus RS is $37k just like a Camaro SS. The Focus RS is incredibly fun to drive and equipped well there at least. The real value bargain is the Camaro 335 hp V6 model for $26k.


40 grand for a Focus??
 
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