Project Farm - Tests Pennzoil Motor Oil

[Graham Piccinini]

If he really believes that then why does he go through all the work producing these videos and call them tests?

If it’s true that these videos are the equivalent of a Britney Spears music video then why are you posting them in a technical forum?

- Project Farm posts his "tests" because those videos ensure a bright financial future for him and his family. He will keep on doing it as long as it pays.

- No matter how flawed his tests are, I would still say that they are closer to what this forum is about (automotive fluids), than countless memes, pictures of animals/nature/food. Yet I don't see anyone complain about those being on an oil forum.

 

[wag123]

I (for one) am glad to see this thread come back. I don't really see why it was sent to La -La-Land to begin with. I understand why many would think that these YouTubes have no validity, and as a test of one specific oil, they don't. However, this particular one compares 4 different oils of the same brand tested the same way, and as a result, it DOES have some validity. I found it interesting and informative and IMO it DOES belong on this board if for no other reason than a discussion of it's merits.

 

[doublebase]

I like one of his last points after he started mixing fuel and or antifreeze with the oils. I’m paraphrasing, but something like...a well performing tight engine not allowing the oil to be contaminated is the best oil. Something like that. I agree.

I’ve tried some of the “best” oils with engines that had direct injection/fuel dilution/low tension rings...and still that oil smelled like fuel, and had my oil consumption issues. Oil couldn’t stop it. And I’ve had “tight engines” without direct injection/fuel dilution issues, and I’ve run longer intervals without oil loss.

It’s mostly the engine. And I also think this video pointed out performance we likely suspected throughout Pennzoils brand...with Pennzoil Platinum maybe performing a little off. Which makes me wonder a little bit if it was a bad batch (like someone else said). Because the detergents were so low in comparison to the others, and the cold flow was poor in both tests. I didn’t except that from PP. but I take all his videos with a grain of salt.

 

[kschachn]

- No matter how flawed his tests are, I would still say that they are closer to what this forum is about (automotive fluids), than countless memes, pictures of animals/nature/food. Yet I don't see anyone complain about those being on an oil forum.

Actually there is a pretty big difference. When memes and animal pictures are posted hopefully no one is ascribing technical attributes to them. On these videos they are eventually "ranking" motor oil performance despite their claim not to do so. And as you see in this thread and others there are individuals who believe they have merit and believe the results are valid at least to some extent.

It's unfortunate that people with a critical lack of what constitutes a valid test are so popular in social media. It's critical in this test at least, perhaps he is able to test knives, screwdrivers or paper clips. However when it comes to motor oil he's fundamentally ignorant as to what is a valid test in the first place, how to gather meaningful data and how to interpret it. The video fatally fails on all three of these.

 

[travis8352]

As we say every time a bearing scar test meant for testing the EP properties of grease and gear oil have no efficacy for testing the lubricity of motor oil. I really wish he's stop with the test, too many dumb "car guys" watch him and don't understand his "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer, I don't hate the guy, but his fan base takes his very flawed "reviews" too seriously and for people that have some clue on lubrication science it's very frustrating trying to undo the harm his videos are doing in the community.

Its amazing how many car pages on facebook when someone asks what oil do you use? And there's always a few people that say oh i use pennzoil ultra platinum because it tested almost as good as amsoil in project farms testing for a fraction of the price

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Actually there is a pretty big difference. When memes and animal pictures are posted hopefully no one is ascribing technical attributes to them. On these videos they are eventually "ranking" motor oil performance despite their claim not to do so. And as you see in this thread and others there are individuals who believe they have merit and believe the results are valid at least to some extent.

It's unfortunate that people with a critical lack of what constitutes a valid test are so popular in social media. It's critical in this test at least, perhaps he is able to test knives, screwdrivers or paper clips. However when it comes to motor oil he's fundamentally ignorant as to what is a valid test in the first place, how to gather meaningful data and how to interpret it. The video fatally fails on all three of these.

I especially loved the "Total Detergents/Dispersants" ranking...

 

[kschachn]

Its amazinf how many car pages on facebook when someone asks what oil do you use? And theres always a few people that say oh i use pennzoil ultra platinum because it tested almpst as good as amsoil in project farms testing for a fraction of the price

All the while either ignorant of or willfully disregarding the licenses, specifications or approvals an oil holds that actually do document performance.

 

[RDY4WAR]

If he really believes that then why does he go through all the work producing these videos and call them tests?

If it’s true that these videos are the equivalent of a Britney Spears music video then why are you posting them in a technical forum?

Do you $ee how many view$ he get$?

 

[kschachn]

Do you $ee how many view$ he get$?

Yeah I know he ultimately does it all for a living but I really do think he believes he’s ranking or characterizing motor oils in these tests (as does that other guy).

 

[Drew7a]

While I can agree PF tests are not ASTM tests, nor do the mimic any tests for licenses and specifications.

PF has his own set of criteria and tests that he runs through, an he follows these same procedures consistently for all the oil he "tests" so the results are based on how they perform according the the tests(rules)he had subjected them to. He never claims Acea, api etc....

You will have people say but these are not valid tests, His test may not guarantee oil performance in service, but no one can argue they are not done consistently and the results show the relative performance of one oil vs another when subjected to the same PF tests(rules).

Just like what does cutting an oil filter do that people here are enamored with? We cant tell what type of particle size is caught and the efficiency the filter is, or its performance when in service. I see comments such as the pleats are consistent or inconsistent. Filter A has more Pleats then filter B. These not a valid test merely opinions! I have no problem with cutting open oil filters but just wanted to point out what it is more for curiosity sake.

Plus the oil racing is entertaining as well.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I (for one) am glad to see this thread come back. I don't really see why it was sent to La -La-Land to begin with. I understand why many would think that these YouTubes have no validity, and as a test of one specific oil, they don't. However, this particular one compares 4 different oils of the same brand tested the same way, and as a result, it DOES have some validity. I found it interesting and informative and IMO it DOES belong on this board if for no other reason than a discussion of it's merits.

It still has no validity because he's essentially testing which one would best serve as an EP grease, which is none of them seeing as they all fail the scar test miserably. The evaporation has no control for variables. Pouring isn't a big of a deal as pumping (dynamic) viscosity. (CCS/MRV) Whether it's the same brand or different brands, it doesn't matter. The method of testing is still horribly flawed.

I feel such as this is more damaging to the oil community as it promotes myths and misinformation that this forum (and elsewhere) has to fight against. I can't tell you how many posts I see in car groups on Facebook from people saying supplements like Motorkoate are god's gift to engines based on PF videos when we know, from SAE and manufacturer studies, that it does more harm than good. We have to fight that mess every day. His videos only make such as that worse.

Yeah I know he ultimately does it all for a living but I really do think he believes he’s ranking or characterizing motor oils in these tests (as does that other guy).

Whether he believes it or not doesn't make the testing valid.

 

[TiGeo]

All the while either ignorant of or willfully disregarding the licenses, specifications or approvals an oil holds that actually do document performance.

Based on licenses, specifications or approvals of the 4 oils in the video, which oil is will have the "best" performance?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Based on licenses, specifications or approvals of the 4 oils in the video, which oil is will have the "best" performance?

Something none of us are going to find out from a poor infomercial.

 

[Pablo]

Based on licenses, specifications or approvals of the 4 oils in the video, which oil is will have the "best" performance?

Impossible to answer in general terms.

One oil MAY prevent infinitesimally less wear, one may keep the engine cleaner, one may cause less HP drag, one may.................

 

[TiGeo]

the results show the relative performance of one oil vs another when subjected to the same PF tests(rules).

Relative performance of one oil vs. another for the metric tested which may not have much bearing (pun!) on how these oils will perform in your vehicle. So yes, the oil race shows which oil wins a race where the oil is chilled to X degrees and poured down a shoot at a Y angle. That is 100% accurate and all the oils he has tested can be compared b/c he performed this test consistently....but what does that show you how the oil will perform w/r to lubricating your engine on a cold start?

BTW - I like the oil races too...ahahaha.

 

[kschachn]

Based on licenses, specifications or approvals of the 4 oils in the video, which oil is will have the "best" performance?

There is no best oil, and you know that as well as I do. But some approvals do document better oxidation resistance, viscosity stability, wear protection, piston cleanliness, protection for ring sticking, and other critical performance criteria. My point being that here as in other goofy and irrelevant tests there is no added value whatsoever. He's neither testing some unknown or hidden performance parameter nor is he even validating any that already exist. This worthless test adds nothing to that decision making process.

All of which is on top of the fact that even if he was adding value through the test his methodology would invalidate that as well.

 

[travis8352]

All the while either ignorant of or willfully disregarding the licenses, specifications or approvals an oil holds that actually do document performance.

Yep. Atleast in the cases i have seen these posts in its regarding a 5.7 hemi or a 3.6 pentastar so i highly doubt pup would be a bad choice. Thankfully it hasnt been in older flat tappet engines like @RDY4WAR has unfortunately experienced

 

[HiPowerShooter]

Some of you REALLY need to loosen up....You're taking this stuff WAAAAAAY too seriously. IF someone has "ruined" and engine by taking what they see on YT from some amateur with clever testing seriously than it's their own **** fault. Use what's spec'd for your engine regardless of what you read here or watch on YT and your engine will live a long and happy life.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Not too hard to get a bad bumpstick in a jobber or consumer flat tappet cam, then a lot of builders are too lazy to run in the new components properly on the bigger sticks.
When I give them a 1/2 bottle of Howard or Lunati zdp if they are not coming back to me for the third OC and tell then to LEAVE THE OIL IN for the season or 2000 miles! - Ken

 

[TiGeo]

There is no best oil, and you know that as well as I do. But some approvals do document better oxidation resistance, viscosity stability, wear protection, piston cleanliness, protection for ring sticking, and other critical performance criteria. My point being that here as in other goofy and irrelevant tests there is no added value whatsoever. He's neither testing some unknown or hidden performance parameter nor is he even validating any that already exist. This worthless test adds nothing to that decision making process.

All of which is on top of the fact that even if he was adding value through the test his methodology would invalidate that as well.

I agree with you. However as an average consumer in the oil aisle at Walmart how does he/she choose between oils with the same approvals? Enter PF!