Professional Mechanic's Opinion on HM Oils
- Thread starter The Critic
- Start date
- Status
Professional mechanic eh.
The guy who built my Harley engine is one if the best builders I ever met. This guy knows everything there is to know about a v-twin engine,and out of his mouth I hear that Amsoil will seize up my brand spanking new 106 and not to use it.
Ya. 20k on Amsoil later and it starts first turn.
He might be a great wrench but oil expert he wasn't.
The guy who built my Harley engine is one if the best builders I ever met. This guy knows everything there is to know about a v-twin engine,and out of his mouth I hear that Amsoil will seize up my brand spanking new 106 and not to use it.
Ya. 20k on Amsoil later and it starts first turn.
He might be a great wrench but oil expert he wasn't.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
i own an engine shop all we do is rebuild engines and i h=use High Mileage oils in my car in the summer only because they are thicker and theyu do work
So when are we going to see a picture of the shop you own...sure, pixel out obvious identifying clues if you want, but we all want to see this shop.
i own an engine shop all we do is rebuild engines and i h=use High Mileage oils in my car in the summer only because they are thicker and theyu do work
So when are we going to see a picture of the shop you own...sure, pixel out obvious identifying clues if you want, but we all want to see this shop.
Quote:
No effect on the valve seals. Maybe they are burnt, maybe the swellers have no effect on the harder viton rubber of a valve seal and Goss's example using a valve seal is bogus
I have no idea really but you have a point. I do know the valve seals i have seen over the decades have been a wide range of materials. Everything from what appears to be just plain old Buna-N to reinforced viton in metal shrouds and some plastics ones.
So i would think it depends more on the material used than a blanket statement.
I do know that when i changed the fork springs on my 1 year old bike back in the early 90's to progressive rate sport models and used a fork oil that had seal "conditioners" in it i ended up with leaking fork seals way to early.
The seals were definitely swollen and soggy compared to the new ones i installed.
This is from the link you posted..
Quote:
If the seal has just shrunk, the seal swell additives in Mobil 1 High Mileage can actually help re-swell the seal and help to reduce or stop the leaking
The question is if it can swell on seal will it swell even good seals of the same material? I would almost bet it does.
This could be a real problem if it was used to "fix" something like a bad front seal and now every seal in the engine is swollen and soggy.
Personally i err on the side of caution and would use it only on an old bomb that had something like a leaky rear main seal that cost more than the car is worth to change.
I think there is some truth to what Goss is saying.
No effect on the valve seals. Maybe they are burnt, maybe the swellers have no effect on the harder viton rubber of a valve seal and Goss's example using a valve seal is bogus
I have no idea really but you have a point. I do know the valve seals i have seen over the decades have been a wide range of materials. Everything from what appears to be just plain old Buna-N to reinforced viton in metal shrouds and some plastics ones.
So i would think it depends more on the material used than a blanket statement.
I do know that when i changed the fork springs on my 1 year old bike back in the early 90's to progressive rate sport models and used a fork oil that had seal "conditioners" in it i ended up with leaking fork seals way to early.
The seals were definitely swollen and soggy compared to the new ones i installed.
This is from the link you posted..
Quote:
If the seal has just shrunk, the seal swell additives in Mobil 1 High Mileage can actually help re-swell the seal and help to reduce or stop the leaking
The question is if it can swell on seal will it swell even good seals of the same material? I would almost bet it does.
This could be a real problem if it was used to "fix" something like a bad front seal and now every seal in the engine is swollen and soggy.
Personally i err on the side of caution and would use it only on an old bomb that had something like a leaky rear main seal that cost more than the car is worth to change.
I think there is some truth to what Goss is saying.
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Imo,calling certain oils "HM" is just a marketing gimmick. They`re slightly thicker,have more detergency,and more antiwear(moly and zinc) if you read the spec sheets. I`d want to ask that mechanic dude if switching back and fourth between conventional and synthetic will mess up your engine :^P
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
No effect on the valve seals. Maybe they are burnt, maybe the swellers have no effect on the harder viton rubber of a valve seal and Goss's example using a valve seal is bogus
I have no idea really but you have a point. I do know the valve seals i have seen over the decades have been a wide range of materials. Everything from what appears to be just plain old Buna-N to reinforced viton in metal shrouds and some plastics ones.
So i would think it depends more on the material used than a blanket statement.
I do know that when i changed the fork springs on my 1 year old bike back in the early 90's to progressive rate sport models and used a fork oil that had seal "conditioners" in it i ended up with leaking fork seals way to early.
The seals were definitely swollen and soggy compared to the new ones i installed.
This is from the link you posted..
Quote:
If the seal has just shrunk, the seal swell additives in Mobil 1 High Mileage can actually help re-swell the seal and help to reduce or stop the leaking
The question is if it can swell on seal will it swell even good seals of the same material? I would almost bet it does.
This could be a real problem if it was used to "fix" something like a bad front seal and now every seal in the engine is swollen and soggy.
Personally i err on the side of caution and would use it only on an old bomb that had something like a leaky rear main seal that cost more than the car is worth to change.
I think there is some truth to what Goss is saying.
All the same, even with the obsessive-compulsive membership of this board I have yet to hear someone report that "I used an High Mileage oil to stop a leak and when I went back to a non-High Mileage oil the leaks were worse than ever.". I agree on not using an High Mileage oil unless there's a good reason to, but I really don't think using them and switching back is harmful.
Quote:
No effect on the valve seals. Maybe they are burnt, maybe the swellers have no effect on the harder viton rubber of a valve seal and Goss's example using a valve seal is bogus
I have no idea really but you have a point. I do know the valve seals i have seen over the decades have been a wide range of materials. Everything from what appears to be just plain old Buna-N to reinforced viton in metal shrouds and some plastics ones.
So i would think it depends more on the material used than a blanket statement.
I do know that when i changed the fork springs on my 1 year old bike back in the early 90's to progressive rate sport models and used a fork oil that had seal "conditioners" in it i ended up with leaking fork seals way to early.
The seals were definitely swollen and soggy compared to the new ones i installed.
This is from the link you posted..
Quote:
If the seal has just shrunk, the seal swell additives in Mobil 1 High Mileage can actually help re-swell the seal and help to reduce or stop the leaking
The question is if it can swell on seal will it swell even good seals of the same material? I would almost bet it does.
This could be a real problem if it was used to "fix" something like a bad front seal and now every seal in the engine is swollen and soggy.
Personally i err on the side of caution and would use it only on an old bomb that had something like a leaky rear main seal that cost more than the car is worth to change.
I think there is some truth to what Goss is saying.
All the same, even with the obsessive-compulsive membership of this board I have yet to hear someone report that "I used an High Mileage oil to stop a leak and when I went back to a non-High Mileage oil the leaks were worse than ever.". I agree on not using an High Mileage oil unless there's a good reason to, but I really don't think using them and switching back is harmful.
This thread leaves me feeling somewhat vindicated. A while back I posted a question regarding whether it would be foolish to switch back and forth from Mobil 1 High Mileage to M1 because the engine may be accustomed to the seal conditioner. A few responses were of the "that's a really stupid question" variety.
Originally Posted By: teddyboy
This thread leaves me feeling somewhat vindicated. A while back I posted a question regarding whether it would be foolish to switch back and forth from Mobil 1 High Mileage to M1 because the engine may be accustomed to the seal conditioner. A few responses were of the "that's a really stupid question" variety.
Seems like a reasonable question to me. A possible answer is found on Valvoline's "myths/reality" web page: "Reality - Synthetic, synthetic blend, conventional and high mileage motor oils are compatible. Mixing or switching between types of motor oil is not harmful to your engine.".
This thread leaves me feeling somewhat vindicated. A while back I posted a question regarding whether it would be foolish to switch back and forth from Mobil 1 High Mileage to M1 because the engine may be accustomed to the seal conditioner. A few responses were of the "that's a really stupid question" variety.
Seems like a reasonable question to me. A possible answer is found on Valvoline's "myths/reality" web page: "Reality - Synthetic, synthetic blend, conventional and high mileage motor oils are compatible. Mixing or switching between types of motor oil is not harmful to your engine.".
Originally Posted By: jkhawaii
Waste of money. if your car is leaking oil, it's leaking oil.
I tend to agree, that on the whole it is a marketing ploy. Why don't you see this type of oil in other markets? Because the public in other countries isn't as gullible .
Waste of money. if your car is leaking oil, it's leaking oil.
I tend to agree, that on the whole it is a marketing ploy. Why don't you see this type of oil in other markets? Because the public in other countries isn't as gullible .
Originally Posted By: jkhawaii
Waste of money. if your car is leaking oil, it's leaking oil.
Dunno about that. MaxLife virtually eliminated my oil leak, which was in a very (very) expensive place to otherwise repair. So I guess I don't think the $2.00 premium for 5 quarts was a waste of money. I was a skeptic, too...
Waste of money. if your car is leaking oil, it's leaking oil.
Dunno about that. MaxLife virtually eliminated my oil leak, which was in a very (very) expensive place to otherwise repair. So I guess I don't think the $2.00 premium for 5 quarts was a waste of money. I was a skeptic, too...
Quote:
"myths/reality" web page: "Reality - Synthetic, synthetic blend, conventional and high mileage motor oils are compatible
I don't know the answer but i wonder what the answer is if an engine was run on a High Mileage oils long term then all of a sudden switched to non High Mileage oil.
I think it would have more to do with the type of seal and the material used in the engine. Most modern seals should be somewhat resistant to even seal swellers but older materials like Nitril and rope or 2 piece seals may act differently. That alone nullifies the "it worked in my engine so it should work in yours" argument.
Personally i have doubts about High Mileage oils and cant find a concrete answer that satisfies my concerns so i don't bother with it. Other have good luck with it and that's fine too.
Maybe i am thinking too much into this but i rather think about before than wonder what happened after.
"myths/reality" web page: "Reality - Synthetic, synthetic blend, conventional and high mileage motor oils are compatible
I don't know the answer but i wonder what the answer is if an engine was run on a High Mileage oils long term then all of a sudden switched to non High Mileage oil.
I think it would have more to do with the type of seal and the material used in the engine. Most modern seals should be somewhat resistant to even seal swellers but older materials like Nitril and rope or 2 piece seals may act differently. That alone nullifies the "it worked in my engine so it should work in yours" argument.
Personally i have doubts about High Mileage oils and cant find a concrete answer that satisfies my concerns so i don't bother with it. Other have good luck with it and that's fine too.
Maybe i am thinking too much into this but i rather think about before than wonder what happened after.
I'll be an excellent guinea pig on this subject because the fleet company won't spring for syn oil in the new '12 E-250 4.6 powered van, and Durablend isn't available anymore-so it's Valvoline MaxLife 5w20, NOT Valvoline MaxLife NextGen because Enterprise doesn't like "used" oil, every 5,000 miles, from now until it BLOWS UP! On it's 2nd OC already at 16K, doing just fine so far!
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll be an excellent guinea pig on this subject because the fleet company won't spring for syn oil in the new '12 E-250 4.6 powered van, and Durablend isn't available anymore-so it's Valvoline MaxLife 5w20, NOT Valvoline MaxLife NextGen because Enterprise doesn't like "used" oil, every 5,000 miles, from now until it BLOWS UP! On it's 2nd OC already at 16K, doing just fine so far!
Used oil? See it's comments like that that really make me wonder sometimes.
To refine crude oil is it more intensive than to re-refine used oil. And from a usage standpoint does the re-refined oil break down any quicker than the virgin stuff.
I like that Valvoline is doing it. I haven't bought any,not saying I won't either but my oil stash is already more than most auto parts stores so it will be quite some time before I need to buy oil.
Does anyone know from a performance standpoint is the re-refined stuff any lesser than virgin?
I'll be an excellent guinea pig on this subject because the fleet company won't spring for syn oil in the new '12 E-250 4.6 powered van, and Durablend isn't available anymore-so it's Valvoline MaxLife 5w20, NOT Valvoline MaxLife NextGen because Enterprise doesn't like "used" oil, every 5,000 miles, from now until it BLOWS UP! On it's 2nd OC already at 16K, doing just fine so far!
Used oil? See it's comments like that that really make me wonder sometimes.
To refine crude oil is it more intensive than to re-refine used oil. And from a usage standpoint does the re-refined oil break down any quicker than the virgin stuff.
I like that Valvoline is doing it. I haven't bought any,not saying I won't either but my oil stash is already more than most auto parts stores so it will be quite some time before I need to buy oil.
Does anyone know from a performance standpoint is the re-refined stuff any lesser than virgin?
Originally Posted By: Trav
Personally i have doubts about High Mileage oils and cant find a concrete answer that satisfies my concerns so i don't bother with it.
Remember though, Trav, that thanks to your skill set, you have less trepidation about actually fixing a leak than the vast majority of other drivers.
In the old F-150, I used MaxLife with success until I got the engine rebuilt and the seals actually replaced. In the Audi, I didn't even consider a High Mileage oil, since the valve cover gasket replacement wasn't much more difficult than an oil change and cost next to nothing.
If the average leak cost $15 to fix and took 15 minutes of work like on the Audi, maybe we'd see less love for High Mileage oils.
Personally i have doubts about High Mileage oils and cant find a concrete answer that satisfies my concerns so i don't bother with it.
Remember though, Trav, that thanks to your skill set, you have less trepidation about actually fixing a leak than the vast majority of other drivers.
In the old F-150, I used MaxLife with success until I got the engine rebuilt and the seals actually replaced. In the Audi, I didn't even consider a High Mileage oil, since the valve cover gasket replacement wasn't much more difficult than an oil change and cost next to nothing.
If the average leak cost $15 to fix and took 15 minutes of work like on the Audi, maybe we'd see less love for High Mileage oils.
I see no reason for a High Mileage oil unless you have a specific problem, oil burning, leaking, or something along those lines. I would consider it if I had any of the above issues and didn't want to spend the time or the money to fix the problem. Beater cars come to mind, where you want to keep the car, but don't want to fix the problem. It has its place and has worked for a lot of people. Certainly something to consider for some people. JMO
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll be an excellent guinea pig on this subject because the fleet company won't spring for syn oil in the new '12 E-250 4.6 powered van, and Durablend isn't available anymore-so it's Valvoline MaxLife 5w20, NOT Valvoline MaxLife NextGen because Enterprise doesn't like "used" oil, every 5,000 miles, from now until it BLOWS UP! On it's 2nd OC already at 16K, doing just fine so far!
Used oil? See it's comments like that that really make me wonder sometimes.
To refine crude oil is it more intensive than to re-refine used oil. And from a usage standpoint does the re-refined oil break down any quicker than the virgin stuff.
I like that Valvoline is doing it. I haven't bought any,not saying I won't either but my oil stash is already more than most auto parts stores so it will be quite some time before I need to buy oil.
Does anyone know from a performance standpoint is the re-refined stuff any lesser than virgin?
The term re-refine ON WHAT base oil is re-refined? For example DOD from my understanding here consolidates certain operations to use only DOD re-refine oil. Other operations may use major brand PCMO or the Delo 400 oil for example. ATF are also included.
Solvents in the oil are rejected, every used oil for are tested. There is a hefty cost to take solvents out of the oil. Any DOD operations which test solvents in used oil are investigated as to WHY since oil and fuel additives are not to be used in DOD operations. Reason for Re-refine purpose.
Re-refine oil is no problem the oil base will become as what the used oil base is.
DOD enforces to control external additives contaminating used oil for re- refinement.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
I'll be an excellent guinea pig on this subject because the fleet company won't spring for syn oil in the new '12 E-250 4.6 powered van, and Durablend isn't available anymore-so it's Valvoline MaxLife 5w20, NOT Valvoline MaxLife NextGen because Enterprise doesn't like "used" oil, every 5,000 miles, from now until it BLOWS UP! On it's 2nd OC already at 16K, doing just fine so far!
Used oil? See it's comments like that that really make me wonder sometimes.
To refine crude oil is it more intensive than to re-refine used oil. And from a usage standpoint does the re-refined oil break down any quicker than the virgin stuff.
I like that Valvoline is doing it. I haven't bought any,not saying I won't either but my oil stash is already more than most auto parts stores so it will be quite some time before I need to buy oil.
Does anyone know from a performance standpoint is the re-refined stuff any lesser than virgin?
The term re-refine ON WHAT base oil is re-refined? For example DOD from my understanding here consolidates certain operations to use only DOD re-refine oil. Other operations may use major brand PCMO or the Delo 400 oil for example. ATF are also included.
Solvents in the oil are rejected, every used oil for are tested. There is a hefty cost to take solvents out of the oil. Any DOD operations which test solvents in used oil are investigated as to WHY since oil and fuel additives are not to be used in DOD operations. Reason for Re-refine purpose.
Re-refine oil is no problem the oil base will become as what the used oil base is.
DOD enforces to control external additives contaminating used oil for re- refinement.
True but even i am not going to tear a transmission and flywheel out to replace the rear seal on a old banger. Its getting a can of snot and that's about it.
On a late model with a very expensive engine that's a different story. I don't want to risk the good seals for one leaker, that's all.
On a late model with a very expensive engine that's a different story. I don't want to risk the good seals for one leaker, that's all.
Originally Posted By: Trav
True but even i am not going to tear a transmission and flywheel out to replace the rear seal on a old banger. Its getting a can of snot and that's about it.
Agreed. That's why I tried the HM on the F-150. The few extra bucks were worth it in my case; obviously that's not always the case. I was planning on doing the work eventually, not immediately. The Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 fared about as well as the Delvac 15w40 with respect to leaking, and obviously I wasn't going to run a 15w40 in our winters. 15w40 or MaxLife 5w30 meant I did not have to top up over the OCI. 5w30 PCMO required a litre or two over the interval.
I did notice, too, that the MaxLife kept the oil pressure light nice and dark throughout the whole OCI at hot pressure (the carb was terribly, overfuelling like crazy), whereas a normal PCMO 5w30 couldn't accomplish that. Obviously, the 15w40 had no problems with that, either.
True but even i am not going to tear a transmission and flywheel out to replace the rear seal on a old banger. Its getting a can of snot and that's about it.
Agreed. That's why I tried the HM on the F-150. The few extra bucks were worth it in my case; obviously that's not always the case. I was planning on doing the work eventually, not immediately. The Valvoline MaxLife 5w30 fared about as well as the Delvac 15w40 with respect to leaking, and obviously I wasn't going to run a 15w40 in our winters. 15w40 or MaxLife 5w30 meant I did not have to top up over the OCI. 5w30 PCMO required a litre or two over the interval.
I did notice, too, that the MaxLife kept the oil pressure light nice and dark throughout the whole OCI at hot pressure (the carb was terribly, overfuelling like crazy), whereas a normal PCMO 5w30 couldn't accomplish that. Obviously, the 15w40 had no problems with that, either.
- Status
Similar threads
