Prevention of snapping brake bleeders

[The Critic]

So, I want to flush the brake system on the '96 Saturn SL2. However, I'm scared of fussing with the bleed valves after all of the horror stories of valves snapping off due to rust from age.

Granted, I don't live in a salty area...so I don't think my rust problem would be that severe.

But still, the thought of having to spend $225 on four new calipers if something were to go wrong, is mind boggling.

How can I minimize the chances of snapping of my bleeders? Should I just leave it alone? Take it to a shop and have them fuss with it?

 

[Quest]

IMHO if you don't live in a wet/salty area and you service your brakes on a regular basis (every year or 2 you have to break free your bleeder screws), they shouldn't seize up at all.

Only those that have been on the calipers/cylinders for many, many years or in the salt-belt area(snow/ice) would they seized frequently. But then again: I used to service/bleed my car in the salted areas every summer time and I have yet to break a seized bleeder screw!

Go figure.

Q.

p.s. Always use a good 6 pt wrench to break the bleeder screw loose. When in doubt, consider using a 1/4" deep 6pt socket and wratchet to break the screw free instead of trying your luck with just the open end of a wrench. Also, you can definitely use some light lubricant on some rusty bleeder screws overnight before you break it free.

 

[wander2039]

Well from what I learned today age doesn't seem to matter. I snapped off one bleeder on our 04 Escape today and one of the fronts will probably snap unless the pb blaster does it's magic. But on my dad's 91 Festiva that never had the brakes bleed I had no problems loosening those bleeder screws. I think proper soaking with PB blaster etc helps more than anything.

 

[The Critic]

Well, the brakes have never serviced before...

 

[porcupine73]

If you're really worried about it, I'd get some good penetrating oil like Kroil and apply it every couple of days as far as possible in advance of the job. Usually you can get close enough to the bleeders to apply this without removing the wheels. And yes definitely use a 6pt wrench in getting it loose. Try tightening and loosening a little until it breaks free. If it feels to tight then back off or take it to a brake shop or something.

I have a couple of subaru's that have lived in the salty winters of buffalo, ny and have had no issues with bleeding the brakes and that without any penetrating oil so you might not even have any issues.

 

[Sparkman]

I coat the bleeder in never-seize once it's fully installed, so as not to get any on the threads or in the brake fluid. I've never broken one in 15 years and hundreds of thousands of miles. I've even had pretty good luck removing them on cars on which this hadn't been done, by using penetrating oil and being patient.

Dealing with salt-exposed cars is a bit of an art, one has to get the feel for when something is going to break, and stop before breaking it. I basically start by spraying anything I'm going to remove with PB Blaster, waiting, and then trying to remove it. Usually I'll spray something each day for a few days before starting a project. It's far better to be stopped in one's tracks than to break something and have to deal with the ramifications. Of course there are other tools, heat and thermal cycling, impact wrenches and hammers, the BFH, etc.

I also have a fairly aggressive regimen of preemptive never-seize application, coating things that I think I may have to eventually remove before they become rusty.

I work on a road with a salt mine, where the trucks spill so much salt that the road is actually greasy from salt at times from November through April. I never knew salt could be so slippery before moving here, and the rate at which our cars degrade is depressing. I'm considering going to a beater as cheaply as possible strategy, for me at least. The wife cares what people think, so she wants something nice.

 

[ChrisW]

If you loosen them when the brakes are warm its a bit easier. I always break em loose with a 6pt closed wrench or a socket if i know i haven't done so anytime soon. Then i'll use a quality flare-nut wrench form then on. The craftsmen flare wrenches are beefy to me, i do like snap-on's better but for the price the craftsman beat out any of your local autoparts store 'greak neck' etc brands.

 

[quintdiesel]

Whenever I acquire a vehicle, the first thing I do is get the little rubber or plastic covers for the bleeders. I have never had a problem with them later. Whenever I put on a new wheel cylinder/ caliper I do as Sparkman says and coat the bleeder with a little anti-sieze (copper formula)

 

[Kestas]

Critic, since you want to avoid paying $225 for snapped bleeder screws, don't attempt this job until you are in a position to salvage the caliper by drilling out the old bleeder screw and tapping to clean the threads.

Every bleeder screw I handle gets the threads treated with something - antiseize, silicone, or rtv. I don't know which is best... probably antiseize.

 

[johnd]

I've been doing brakes for 40 years and have never seen a bleeder snap off. This is Texas, of course and the nearest salt is the Gulf of Mexico. I had an employee from Michigan that had a van that had been through some Michigan winters and he bled the brakes by loosening the brake lines because the bleeders were rusted in. There is always a way. I think your fears are out of proportion for the risk involved here.

 

[wander2039]

Would the use of a impact gun lessen the chances of snapping a bleeder? I've found a tool that hooks onto a impact gun specifically for brake bleeders.. they say there's a 95% chance of success using it but that was from the company. I was thinking along the lines of using a drill with a clutch to produce the impact effect. Opinions?

 

[Quest]

Eric-

Unless you can get those smaller portable (use rechargable battery pack) impact gun (CT here sells it on a regular basis) as an attempt to break it free, otherwise, it's all about "feel" when you attempt to break a rusty bleeder screw loose.

As a former mechanic, I have only snap 1 brake bleeder screw so far (out of almost 1000 brake jobs) and the fortunate part was that it was on a brake cylinder which was cheep to replace anyways. The trick to doing bleeder screw is to use 6pt socket or wrench with enough leverage to take it in just 1 shot. If it doesn't break free from 1 shot, it's probably seized to the point where you have to remove the caliper/brake cylinder from the car, put it on the vise in order to service it properly.

I never put any anti-seize or oil-based lubricant on the screw thread in fear of brake fluid contamination. Even just a small amount of oil-based lubricant will ruin your hydraulic system's rubber seals quickly. I would typically resort to cleaning the threads with wire brush and then quickly wipe it down with a towel lightly soaked with brake cleaner spray, dry it thoroughly before putting it back (on my cars only, not when you serve in a dealership). Never seize on me so far.

Last but not least, carefully tighten the screw but not to the point of causing a seizure or snapping the screw off. Many a time I've seen brake guys overtighten the screw that it's at it's brink of snapping off into 2 pcs. Again, this is by feel although I thought in some tech schools they said that the torque for bleeder screw is approx. 6~8ft/lbs?)

My understanding is that brake bleeder screws aren't meant to be lubricated or comes into contact with any foreign types of materials or lubricants anways (that's why it uses a metal conical valve design to "seal").

 

[Brett Miller]

A can of PB Blaster will be your best friend.....

 

[alreadygone]

Here in AR I've never had any particular problem,, unless the car is a yankee transplant, even then 6pt tool with judicious use of hammer (both on end of bleeder while holding firm pressure on wrench, and on end of wrench itself)they'll almost allways come out. You're speaking disaster with all 4 twisting! If you're that inept with tools hire it done.

Another option, saw in a new tools magazine; A problem bleeder removal system using hardened drive in splines to reinforce bleeder body with drive on socket that grips spline and nut area of bleeder inside. Then you use standard socket on outside of special socket to turn. Of course after using this system bleeder must be replaced, but that's better than bleeder and caliper/cylinder replacement.

Bob

 

[unDummy]

We use road salt here and I've never had a problem with bleeders.

If you want to bleed, spray those bleeders for a couple of days prior to bleeding. This is where Wd40, Pbblaster or any other rust preventative lubricant will help.

And, don't not put too much pressure on the bleeder screw. You should be able to tap your wrench lightly and it'll come loose. If it doesn't, you're doing something wrong.
I find that most backyard mechanics try to muscle the bleeder. It then breaks. You need to apply perfectly even straight force to that wrench. Cheap tools and long sockets don't grip straight. That excessive angle force causes it to snap. Use a wrench that matches the bleeder perfectly(8mm 6 point or whatever). Good bleeder wrenches don't give you enough leverage to break bleeders. And, some offset bleeder wrenches make up for aggravating poor bleeder locations.

Use a torque wrench to finish torque your bleeders. Overtightening the bleeder, besides rust, is what will cause it to need brute force at your next bleed.

 

[NJC]

Wire brush near base of bleeder and PB Blaster, as Brett advises.

 

[eljefino]

I bled my 95 saturn for the first time last winter. Worked fine. Nothing broke. And I'm in a saltier place than you.

 

[alreadygone]

Only problem with spray repeatedly over several days is: as a professional, my customers would hardly be willing to go for that! They're paying me to do it RIGHT NOW!!

Bob

 

[The Critic]

Maybe it isn't so bad, but I think I'm going to hold off for a little while. My recent streak of horrendous luck doesn't give my confidence a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

[wander2039]

Soak them with PB or dreep creep on occasion till you get around to it. I finished the Escape today and on one of the bleeders I thought would break unscrewed easily after a couple days soaking with PB blaster. And besides you can't overcome your bad luck by doing nothing.. unfortunately..