Prestone All Makes All Models SUCKS!!!

[Buford T. Justice]

http://www.gohtsn.com/article_198.shtml

Valvoline Challenges Prestone…and Wins!
By goHTSN Staff
Mar 9, 2006, 17:30

New York, NY – March 8, 2006 – The National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc., has recommended that Honeywell Consumer Products Group discontinue advertising that suggests its Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant can be used in all makes and models of automobiles and light trucks, and that the antifreeze is compatible with all other antifreeze products. Honeywell has said it will appeal the NAD decision to the National Advertising Review Board (NARB).

NAD, the advertising industry’s self-regulatory forum, examined advertising for Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant following a challenge from The Valvoline Company, the maker of a competing antifreeze product.

Claims at issue included:
• May be added to the antifreeze/coolant of any make or model automobile or light duty truck on the road today, foreign or domestic

• All Makes, All Models, add to ANY color antifreeze

• This patented Ready to Use formula is intended for use and compatible with ANY antifreeze/coolant used in ANY make or model automobile or light duty truck on the road today and mixes with ANY color antifreeze.

• May be added to the antifreeze/coolant of any make or model automobile or light duty truck on the road today, foreign or domestic.

• One formula is now compatible with all makes, models, and mixes in all colors.

Following a review of the evidence, NAD determined that the automotive industry consensus standard relied upon by Honeywell did not address questions of compatibility or universality. Moreover, NAD determined that the compatibility testing offered by Honeywell did not sufficiently support its compatibility claims. As a result, NAD determined that the advertiser did not provide a reasonable basis for its claims that Prestone Extended Life antifreeze can be used in all makes and models, or its claim that the antifreeze is compatible with all other antifreezes. NAD recommended that the advertiser discontinue both its "all makes, all models" claims and its compatibility claims.

Honeywell, in its advertiser’s statement, argued that industry consensus standards do support its claims. "Honeywell respectfully requests that this case be referred to the NARB for review of the following issues: (1) NAD’s conclusions with respect to Honeywell’s 'all makes/all models' claim and the corresponding substantiation that was submitted in support of this claim; and (2) NAD’s conclusions with respect to Honeywell’s compatibility claims (including extended life compatibility) and the corresponding substantiation that was submitted in support of this claim."

NAD's inquiry was conducted under NAD/CARU/NARB Procedures for the Voluntary Self-Regulation of National Advertising. Details of the initial inquiry, NAD's decision, and the advertiser's response will be included in the next NAD Case Report.

The National Advertising Review Council (NARC) was formed in 1971 by the Association of National Advertisers, Inc. (ANA), the American Association of Advertising Agencies, Inc. (AAAA), the American Advertising Federation, Inc. (AAF), and the Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. (CBBB). Its purpose is to foster truth and accuracy in national advertising through voluntary self-regulation. NARC is the body that establishes the policies and procedures for the CBBB’s National Advertising Division (NAD) and Children’s Advertising Review Unit (CARU), as well as for the National Advertising Review Board (NARB).

NAD and CARU are the investigative arms of the advertising industry’s voluntary self-regulation program. Their casework results from competitive challenges from other advertisers, and also from self-monitoring traditional and new media. The National Advertising Review Board (NARB), the appeals body, is a peer group from which ad-hoc panels are selected to adjudicate those cases that are not resolved at the NAD/CARU level. This unique, self-regulatory system is funded entirely by the business community; CARU is financed by the children’s advertising industry, while NAD/NARC/NARB’s sole source of funding is derived from membership fees paid to the CBBB. For more information about advertising self regulation, please visit www.narcpartners.org.

goHTSN.com Editor: Note that goHTSN.com found significant coolant/antifreeze details within NAD's multipage documentation backing up their decison; the most important items will be released in the upcoming issue of Cool Profit$ Magazine. If you are not yet a subscriber, please consider it:
https://secure3.gct21.net/~max/Subscribe.html

Copyright © 2006 HTSN

 

[Buford T. Justice]

I always kind of figured Prestone was full of it when they came out with this junk. After all, G-05 is the replacement for conventional green. G-05 has silicates (less than conventional green) which is good. Prestone All Makes All Models doesn't. Plus the Asian car companies like phosphates instead of silicates. Prestone All Makes All Models doesn't have these either. Essentially, it is just Dex-Cool dyed off-green.

 

[Tosh]

Interesting to see dirty laundry aired in public like this. But instead of making some clever remark about NARCpartners or NAD, I'll wait to hear what RayH has to say about this. To me, those five claims sound like one claim.

 

[Ray H]

It'll be interesting to see how this dispute plays out. It may also be a tempest in a teapot - the ultimate test of Honeywell's advertising claims is whether there are cooling system damage claims filed on the basis of using a "dexclone" coolant in systems not approved for it. (I haven't heard of any, but that doesn't mean there aren't some pending...) But, before anyone slams Honeywell for gratuitous advertising claims, keep in mind that Valvoline is definitely playing both sides of the fence in this dispute. In addition to low-silicate/OAT hybrid Zerex G-05 Antifreeze/Coolant (which I've previously stated I believe has a slight edge, if only theoretically), the company also blends and distributes Zerex ExtremeLife Antifreeze/Coolant - their own "dexclone". Valvoline's literally in the position of enjoying the even more cynical luxury of playing "heads-we-win-tails-you-lose" no matter the outcome.

 

[Dave H]

Buford,

My Nissan ('97 Maxima) specifically calls for a silicate and phosphate free coolant.

I currently have the Prestone All Makes/All Models in my '97 Maxima and wife's '88 Nissan pickup. This is the second flush/fill with it in both vehicles, and no problems yet (2+ years I think). Only problem I have with it is it is too light colored for me to see through my Maxima's plastic recovery tank. I actually have to open the cap and look down through to check my level. Wife's truck doesn't have that problem.
An interesting observation is that I seem to have much less dark gunk in the bottom of the Maxima's recovery tank as compared to whatever I used to run before the Prestone (can't recall what it was). Don't know if it is related to the silicate/phosphate free Prestone, or better flushing. I would think as a vehicle ages, more gunk would form. Just throwing that out there incase anyone else observes the same.

Dave

 

[jmacmaster]

I also think it'll be interesting to follow this issue. I Google-researched the use of the Prestone "all makes and models and mixes with all other antifreezes claim" last year. I ran across a number of people who were experienced with antifreezes and coolant systems who were very skeptical of the Prestone claim and took the position that the claim has not been proven and that because of possible problems it was advisable not to use the Prestone. I agree with that position. Why would you want to use an unproven product? From what I've read, G-05 is becoming the most highly thought of and popular antifreeze and can be used in any vehicle made by any manufacturer, so long as, if the vehicle has a different type of antifreeze, you flush out all of the other type of antifreeze first. In addition, the Ford Motor Co. and Daimler-Chrysler put the G-05 in ALL their vehicles and recommend it for all their vehicles, and that alone says a lot to me.

 

[Matt_S]

This is all politics at this point. Note that no one is claiming any damage yet.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jmacmaster:
Why would you want to use an unproven product? From what I've read, G-05 is becoming the most highly thought of and popular antifreeze and can be used in any vehicle...

---

You conveniently overlook the fact that DEX-COOL is decade-old technology and has been proved in service. Prestone division has been making and marketing antifreeze as long as anyone in the world, and is still an OEM supplier. Prestone's extended life antifreeze is a minor variation on the DEX-COOL theme (very slightly different OAT compounding, but still a 2-EH), and like DEX-COOL is recommended for all makes. (Check the back of the Texaco DEX-COOL jugs if you question the claim that DEX-COOL is recommended for all cooling system components. Texaco's also GM's DEX-COOL supplier.) G-05 has a two-decade track record and is also unquestionably an excellent coolant product. But, it's by no means the "popular" product you imply it is for general use. (though there're no chemistry or performance reasons it shouldn't be) G-05's problem as a general aftermarket replacement application, is the spotty distribution it receives by retailers. Those seeking Zerex G-05 have to often go to frustrating lengths to locate the stuff. Autozone used to carry it, but ceased. Some NAPA stores carry it, but don't display it. Since Ashland hasn't been able to control the extended life coolant market with their Zerex G-05 at extortionist pricing, the comapany appears to be attempting to subvert Honeywell's aggressive pricing dominance through disreputable marketing claim shananigans. The obvious (to me, anyway) is just dropping the price of G-05 to compete. Apparently, the obvious has yet to occur to Ashland's marketing mavens...

 

[Ray H]

I'll bet demand for G-05 would be a lot MORE popular if the Ashland simply came back down to earth in its pricing strategy.

 

[jmacmaster]

"You conveniently overlook the fact that DEX-COOL is decade-old technology and has been proved in service. Prestone division has been making and marketing antifreeze as long as anyone in the world, and is still an OEM supplier. Prestone's extended life antifreeze is a minor variation on the DEX-COOL theme (very slightly different OAT compounding, but still a 2-EH), and like DEX-COOL is recommended for all makes. (Check the back of the Texaco DEX-COOL jugs if you question the claim that DEX-COOL is recommended for all cooling system components. Texaco's also GM's DEX-COOL supplier.) G-05 has a two-decade track record and is also unquestionably an excellent coolant product. But, it's by no means the "popular" product you imply it is for general use. (though there're no chemistry or performance reasons it shouldn't be) G-05's problem as a general aftermarket replacement application, is the spotty distribution it receives by retailers."

I know that Dexcool's been around for quite awhile and that it can be used in all makes of cars. Its just my impression from what I've read that there's less problems with G-05 and its becoming more popular than the other types of antifreeze. I've read quite a bit on BITOG and other places about problems with Dexcool. I'm sure that you have also.

I also know that Prestone's been making good antifreeze for a long time. I'm not knocking ALL Prestone antifreezes, just questioning the Prestone claim that its "universal" antifreeze is "usable in all models and mixes with all other antifreezes", especially the mixes with all other antifreezes part of the claim.

I know that G-05 is often hard to get. I've had problems finding it myself. But it CAN be found if one keeps looking. SOME auto parts stores, and Ford dealerships sell it. But that doesn't mean that its not becoming more recommended, and more popular, as time goes by. Maybe it isn't. But that's certainly what I've been reading in my fairly extensive Google research on coolants and coolant system issues. And since its been the stock antifreeze in all Ford and Daimler-Chrysler vehicles, its got to be pretty popular for that reason alone. I'll bet that G-05 would be a lot MORE popular if the antifreeze companies would wake up and market it much more widely. Its a big mystery to me why its so hard to find when Ford and Daimler-Chrysler have for a number of years put it in all their vehicles.