The others aren't necessarily better, they're just a bit more universal.
Prestone all makes all models - Disguised Dexcool?
- Thread starter Pyrotechnic
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Prestone is now an organic acid inhibited coolant with 2 EHA
if you say it's a clone, then that means exactly the same.
how can you guys say prestone all makes all models antifreeze is now a dexcool clone containing 2-eha, where are you getting your information ?????
that seems ridiculous considering there is specifically a "prestone dexcool" brand of anti-freeze separate than "prestone all makes all models"
Prestone is now an organic acid inhibited coolant with 2 EHA
if you say it's a clone, then that means exactly the same.
how can you guys say prestone all makes all models antifreeze is now a dexcool clone containing 2-eha, where are you getting your information ?????
that seems ridiculous considering there is specifically a "prestone dexcool" brand of anti-freeze separate than "prestone all makes all models"
All of these coolants will work... Just make sure you completely flush out the old before you change to a different coolant.
I'm running Prestone AMAM in my small block Chevy and I had no idea anybody worried about it. I sleep well at night, the truck doesn't overheat, what more can I say.
Why do people think Peak is way better? What are the differences?
Why do people think Peak is way better? What are the differences?
Quote:
Why do people think Peak is way better? What are the differences?
Don't know about 'way better' but if you are referring to Peak Global Lifetime ( not Peak Long Life/Extended Life) mentioned in this thread, the link below does a decent job of explaining the difference between PGL and the other universal OAT coolants like Prestone.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3155123/1
Why do people think Peak is way better? What are the differences?
Don't know about 'way better' but if you are referring to Peak Global Lifetime ( not Peak Long Life/Extended Life) mentioned in this thread, the link below does a decent job of explaining the difference between PGL and the other universal OAT coolants like Prestone.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3155123/1
I remember when Prestone Dex-Cool was first introduced, it used sebacic acid. They later changed the formula. Prestone is also the company that invented and patented the organic-acid technology. They have always been the leader of innovation in coolant business.
The all-makes/models formula does seem to be very similar to the Dex-Cool formula. However, the former also emphasizes no borates and nitrites.
Toyota Super Long Life seems to be using the original Dex-Cool formula with sebacic acid.
So, does it really matter? Would you still use an old-fashioned green coolant that is far less effective against corrosion and pitting than modern coolants? Is Dex-Cool any different than AMAM and is it good or bad? Is there a chance that Toyota can sell a better coolant than the Prestone? To make matters worse, Toyota is selling two different kinds of coolant red (long-life) and pink (super-long-life):
The all-makes/models formula does seem to be very similar to the Dex-Cool formula. However, the former also emphasizes no borates and nitrites.
Toyota Super Long Life seems to be using the original Dex-Cool formula with sebacic acid.
So, does it really matter? Would you still use an old-fashioned green coolant that is far less effective against corrosion and pitting than modern coolants? Is Dex-Cool any different than AMAM and is it good or bad? Is there a chance that Toyota can sell a better coolant than the Prestone? To make matters worse, Toyota is selling two different kinds of coolant red (long-life) and pink (super-long-life):
(1) Article link: Coolant Confusion: It's Not Easy Being Green ... or Yellow or Orange or ...
(2) Coolant matrix (PDF link)
(2) Coolant matrix (PDF link)
From http://www.integrityautoinc.com/antifreeze/
"Note: The Super Long Life coolant shouldn't be used in the older Toyotas that came with brass & copper radiators, as it's organic-acid-technology corrosion inhibitors aren't effective for these metals or the soldering used in these radiators."
My OEM heavy-duty heater core is certainly copper with lead solder. So, use of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant for me is out of the question.
"Note: The Super Long Life coolant shouldn't be used in the older Toyotas that came with brass & copper radiators, as it's organic-acid-technology corrosion inhibitors aren't effective for these metals or the soldering used in these radiators."
My OEM heavy-duty heater core is certainly copper with lead solder. So, use of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant for me is out of the question.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
From http://www.integrityautoinc.com/antifreeze/
"Note: The Super Long Life coolant shouldn't be used in the older Toyotas that came with brass & copper radiators, as it's organic-acid-technology corrosion inhibitors aren't effective for these metals or the soldering used in these radiators."
My OEM heavy-duty heater core is certainly copper with lead solder. So, use of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant for me is out of the question.
Interesting you mention solder used in cooling system parts and the corrosion inhibitors not being effective with certain coolants. Jeep is having a problem in some instances with OAT coolant reacting with solder used from certain vendors of oil coolers and heater cores. The heater cores become plugged up and need replacement along with the radiator, oil cooler, and thermostat. Flushing is ineffective in some cases. My buddy and I think a universal coolant might be better, since there is no way of knowing which vendor was used for those parts, or what solder was used.
From http://www.integrityautoinc.com/antifreeze/
"Note: The Super Long Life coolant shouldn't be used in the older Toyotas that came with brass & copper radiators, as it's organic-acid-technology corrosion inhibitors aren't effective for these metals or the soldering used in these radiators."
My OEM heavy-duty heater core is certainly copper with lead solder. So, use of Toyota Super Long Life Coolant for me is out of the question.
Interesting you mention solder used in cooling system parts and the corrosion inhibitors not being effective with certain coolants. Jeep is having a problem in some instances with OAT coolant reacting with solder used from certain vendors of oil coolers and heater cores. The heater cores become plugged up and need replacement along with the radiator, oil cooler, and thermostat. Flushing is ineffective in some cases. My buddy and I think a universal coolant might be better, since there is no way of knowing which vendor was used for those parts, or what solder was used.
So, can we rest assured that the Prestone AMAM is safe on gaskets and seals, despite having the 2-EHA? Toyota/Honda are advocating for phosphates because of their instant corrosion inhibition. Prestone AMAM has no phosphates. Toyota/Honda are also advocating against 2-EHA.
Could it be that Perstone AMAM's proprietary inhibitor package negates the disadvantages of having 2-EHA and not having phosphates?
Could it be that Perstone AMAM's proprietary inhibitor package negates the disadvantages of having 2-EHA and not having phosphates?
Inclined to use Toyota Long Life (red fluid) antifreeze, which doesn't have sebacic acid and 2-EHA but has benzoate and phosphate. My heater core is copper with lead solder. Want to avoid Prestone AMAM or Dex-Cool because of 2-EHA (possible gasket/seal problems). Also avoiding Toyota Super Long Life (pink fluid) because of possible harm on the copper/brass/lead in the OEM heavy-duty heater core.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Inclined to use Toyota Long Life (red fluid) antifreeze, which doesn't have sebacic acid and 2-EHA but has benzoate and phosphate. My heater core is copper with lead solder. Want to avoid Prestone AMAM or Dex-Cool because of 2-EHA (possible gasket/seal problems). Also avoiding Toyota Super Long Life (pink fluid) because of possible harm on the copper/brass/lead in the OEM heavy-duty heater core.
Any thoughts?
Have you checked out Deere's coolant, John Deere Cool-Gard II? I've read and heard only good things about it and it appears to work well in any system, w/o issues with solder used or with other cooling system materials. I'd be curious as to what you think.
Inclined to use Toyota Long Life (red fluid) antifreeze, which doesn't have sebacic acid and 2-EHA but has benzoate and phosphate. My heater core is copper with lead solder. Want to avoid Prestone AMAM or Dex-Cool because of 2-EHA (possible gasket/seal problems). Also avoiding Toyota Super Long Life (pink fluid) because of possible harm on the copper/brass/lead in the OEM heavy-duty heater core.
Any thoughts?
Have you checked out Deere's coolant, John Deere Cool-Gard II? I've read and heard only good things about it and it appears to work well in any system, w/o issues with solder used or with other cooling system materials. I'd be curious as to what you think.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Have you checked out Deere's coolant, John Deere Cool-Gard II? I've read and heard only good things about it and it appears to work well in any system, w/o issues with solder used or with other cooling system materials. I'd be curious as to what you think.
I would have to pass on that because Toyota is advising against borates because of possible pitting of aluminum and John Deere Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II have borates.
Toyota is advocating for phosphates. Toyota Long Life (red fluid, not pink fluid) also has benzoate -- a proven corrosion inhibitor in traditional antifreeze, also mandatory in G-05 antifreeze. However, G-05 antifreeze has no phosphates for compatibility with very hard water in Europe.
Have you checked out Deere's coolant, John Deere Cool-Gard II? I've read and heard only good things about it and it appears to work well in any system, w/o issues with solder used or with other cooling system materials. I'd be curious as to what you think.
I would have to pass on that because Toyota is advising against borates because of possible pitting of aluminum and John Deere Cool-Gard and Cool-Gard II have borates.
Toyota is advocating for phosphates. Toyota Long Life (red fluid, not pink fluid) also has benzoate -- a proven corrosion inhibitor in traditional antifreeze, also mandatory in G-05 antifreeze. However, G-05 antifreeze has no phosphates for compatibility with very hard water in Europe.
This seems to be the Japanese company CCI that makes the Toyota coolant:
http://www.ccijp.co.jp/en/
http://www.worldpac.com/msds/
http://www.ccijp.co.jp/en/
http://www.worldpac.com/msds/
Picked up the Toyota Long Life Red antifreeze. Negotiated the price down to $23.82 + tax. It's basically a traditional (green-colored, even though it's red-colored) antifreeze without silicates, borates, nitrites, amines, 2-EHA, sebacic acid, and other OAT, but with beneficial phosphates and benzoate, and also with potassium hydroxide.
(However, traditional antifreeze also tends to have a low dose of silicate. G-05 antifreeze, which also has benzoate and no OAT is similar to the Toyota Red antifreeze. Unlike the Toyota Red, G-05 has a low dose of silicone but no phosphates. Phosphates are only bad if antifreeze is mixed with very hard tap water such as found in Europe.)
(However, traditional antifreeze also tends to have a low dose of silicate. G-05 antifreeze, which also has benzoate and no OAT is similar to the Toyota Red antifreeze. Unlike the Toyota Red, G-05 has a low dose of silicone but no phosphates. Phosphates are only bad if antifreeze is mixed with very hard tap water such as found in Europe.)
Negotiated it down to ~$24.00?
Sounds like bargain, especially for a 2year/30k max recommended service interval AF.
And how can it "basically" be a "traditional antifreeze" colored read instead of green, if contains NO silicates which is THE main inhibitor in traditional original green?
In reality, it's an older shorter life Asian PHOAT with all it's characteristics, that is now being superseded by the longer service interval Toyota Super Long Life pink. Also why red is now becoming much more expensive. Other than the short recommended service interval nothing like original green.
If one wanted a basically conventional green (which is still available) but newer, Zerex and some others now make a low silicated original green with a longer service interval less susceptible silicate drop out considerations.
But, not containing 2eha Toyota red is preferable to using the topic of this thread, Dexcool/dexclone.
And how can it "basically" be a "traditional antifreeze" colored read instead of green, if contains NO silicates which is THE main inhibitor in traditional original green?
In reality, it's an older shorter life Asian PHOAT with all it's characteristics, that is now being superseded by the longer service interval Toyota Super Long Life pink. Also why red is now becoming much more expensive. Other than the short recommended service interval nothing like original green.
If one wanted a basically conventional green (which is still available) but newer, Zerex and some others now make a low silicated original green with a longer service interval less susceptible silicate drop out considerations.
But, not containing 2eha Toyota red is preferable to using the topic of this thread, Dexcool/dexclone.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Negotiated it down to ~$24.00?
Sounds like bargain, especially for a 2year/30k max recommended service interval AF.
Well, a bottle of domestic Prestone is $17, and we're talking about a dealer fluid made by a Japanese company (CCI). The list price is $30.48 and many dealers charge more than the list price for OEM parts.
The recommended interval for traditional coolant is 30k miles / 3 yr for my engine. This is long-life coolant; so, it should be about 45k miles / 3 yr.
Toyota/Honda don't allow silicates and they also require phosphates for water-pump protection. Most coolants out there have no phosphates.
In fact, the only aftermarket coolant that meets the Toyota/Honda specs is Pentosin Pentofrost A1 and it sells for $26.
Negotiated it down to ~$24.00?
Well, a bottle of domestic Prestone is $17, and we're talking about a dealer fluid made by a Japanese company (CCI). The list price is $30.48 and many dealers charge more than the list price for OEM parts.
The recommended interval for traditional coolant is 30k miles / 3 yr for my engine. This is long-life coolant; so, it should be about 45k miles / 3 yr.
Toyota/Honda don't allow silicates and they also require phosphates for water-pump protection. Most coolants out there have no phosphates.
In fact, the only aftermarket coolant that meets the Toyota/Honda specs is Pentosin Pentofrost A1 and it sells for $26.
Must have a different interval than my 01 Tacoma which came with LL Red and says 2years(24months)/30k mi. max right from the owner manual.
So LL Red has Phosphates ie., P-Hoat, and no silicates but is still "basically" a traditional green, which has no phosphates but has silicates?
So LL Red has Phosphates ie., P-Hoat, and no silicates but is still "basically" a traditional green, which has no phosphates but has silicates?
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Must have a different interval than my 01 Tacoma which came with LL Red and says 2years(24months)/30k mi. max right from the owner manual.
So LL Red has Phosphates ie., P-Hoat, and no silicates but is still "basically" a traditional green, which has no phosphates but has silicates?
Why be so argumentative?
My manual says 30k miles / 3 yr.
Depends what you mean by traditional. American antifreeze used phosphates, silicates, and benzoate commonly in the past. In that sense, for example, the HOAT with benzoate (such as G-05) is no different than traditional antifreeze of the past. Color of the antifreeze (green etc.) has little to do with its type or composition.
Must have a different interval than my 01 Tacoma which came with LL Red and says 2years(24months)/30k mi. max right from the owner manual.
So LL Red has Phosphates ie., P-Hoat, and no silicates but is still "basically" a traditional green, which has no phosphates but has silicates?
Why be so argumentative?
My manual says 30k miles / 3 yr.
Depends what you mean by traditional. American antifreeze used phosphates, silicates, and benzoate commonly in the past. In that sense, for example, the HOAT with benzoate (such as G-05) is no different than traditional antifreeze of the past. Color of the antifreeze (green etc.) has little to do with its type or composition.
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