On another forum there is a large thread about the different 2 stroke oils on the market and how pre-delution affects the oil/gas ratio. Some posters think that non-predeluted oil will give higher oil/gas ratios than predeluted oil. Others think that synthetic oil run at the same ratio as conventional oils will cause over rich oil ratios. Some posters think that the reason Amsoil and Opti-2 recomend super high ratios is that their oil is more concentrated. I say run the ratio that the engine manufacturer recomends and use a quality oil like Mobil 1 2T. Any ideas or information on this subject.
Pre-deluted 2 stroke oil
- Thread starter mtgrs737
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Not sure if "pre-deluted" is really an accurate description of non-lubricant content in most twocycle oils. It's there for good reason and does what it's supposed to do.
The idea that opti or amsoil is concentrated is sort of a stretch IMO. Using a heavy base oil lets the "get away with" the higher ratio. And the higher ratio lets them "get away with" not using the additional additive. Think the key here is they "get away with it". Probably not the ideal way to do it or you'd see many more simular products offered by the majors or blenders.
I remember the day when we ran straight oil, no "dilutants", and can say that we've come a long way. Also used all the 100:1's that came around with mixed results.
The idea that opti or amsoil is concentrated is sort of a stretch IMO. Using a heavy base oil lets the "get away with" the higher ratio. And the higher ratio lets them "get away with" not using the additional additive. Think the key here is they "get away with it". Probably not the ideal way to do it or you'd see many more simular products offered by the majors or blenders.
I remember the day when we ran straight oil, no "dilutants", and can say that we've come a long way. Also used all the 100:1's that came around with mixed results.
So are the predulutant oils using a solvent to make the super heavy base oil mix with the fuel so that the ratio stays in an exceptable level. Some think that the use of synthetic oil at non-synthetic ratios will be too rich because of the ability to resist heat and not burn like conventional oils.
I haven't really delved into the technical aspects of 2-stroke oil, but I do have some history that may be applicable. I run several 2-stroke quads and have been since the mid 80's. My Honda 250R recommends 20:1 and when it was new and reasonably new ('86) it ran great on 20:1. With today’s oils, I have been using Maxima Super M for quite a while; 20:1 makes it a blubbering smoking plug fouling pig. I've been running about 32:1 and it's worked great. That 250R has had the **** ridden out of it and has NEVER been apart with well over 15K miles. Which for a quad is huge time I think.
I've switched brands and oil types (always mixing at the same ratio however) and not seen much of a difference in "A/F" between syn/semi-syn/and dino. The little difference that may have been present was not enough for any one of us to agree on so I discount it as trivial and chock it up to different riding styles. I've never done the 100:1 and don't plan on it with the results I've had with my current habits.
My .02 worth.
I've switched brands and oil types (always mixing at the same ratio however) and not seen much of a difference in "A/F" between syn/semi-syn/and dino. The little difference that may have been present was not enough for any one of us to agree on so I discount it as trivial and chock it up to different riding styles. I've never done the 100:1 and don't plan on it with the results I've had with my current habits.
My .02 worth.
im going to speak very generically here, so please bare with me. i realise what im about to say does not apply to every situation but it does apply to a large majority of 2 strokes.
if everything including the jetting is set up properly, a 2 stroke shouldnt be smoking or fouling plugs even at a 20:1 mix. the only time a 2 stroke should really be smoking is when the engine is cold but warming up, or youve been mucking around at very low load and then crack the throttle wide open. and even at those times, the smoke should be a fairly small ammount and go away after a reasonable time.
any modern oil, be it synthetic and conventional, shouldnt cause a 2 stroke to smoke excessivly unless its some kind of super duper racing oil or some such thing.
again im speaking for the majority of 2 cycles here, not the exceptions.
if everything including the jetting is set up properly, a 2 stroke shouldnt be smoking or fouling plugs even at a 20:1 mix. the only time a 2 stroke should really be smoking is when the engine is cold but warming up, or youve been mucking around at very low load and then crack the throttle wide open. and even at those times, the smoke should be a fairly small ammount and go away after a reasonable time.
any modern oil, be it synthetic and conventional, shouldnt cause a 2 stroke to smoke excessivly unless its some kind of super duper racing oil or some such thing.
again im speaking for the majority of 2 cycles here, not the exceptions.
Master ACiD, I agree with you except most 2 strokes are smaller engines where you can't nail the jetting down like you can in a car. My quads and dirt bikes jetting is affected drastically by temperature and humidity, so you have to jet in such as way as to be acceptable in all weather conditions. Where I ride it can do from wet and 40 degrees to fairly dry and 75dF in a matter of a few hours. I can't stop on the trail and change jets. You are right, if the jetting is spot on a 2 stroke will not smoke much at all.
If you have more oil in the mix there is less gas. If I jetted any of my bikes so they didn't smoke at all warm on 20:1 it would be so lean it wouldn't last more than an hour at most. Even at 32:1 I'm a little lean when it's cold out.
To clarify a bit, if I rode the R hard all the time it wouldn't smoke much at 20:1, but it would still smoke. That R has a lot of slow speed time on it, which was part of the smoking problem. I don't mind a little smoke, a little rich won't hurt - run it lean and $$$$$.
If you have more oil in the mix there is less gas. If I jetted any of my bikes so they didn't smoke at all warm on 20:1 it would be so lean it wouldn't last more than an hour at most. Even at 32:1 I'm a little lean when it's cold out.
To clarify a bit, if I rode the R hard all the time it wouldn't smoke much at 20:1, but it would still smoke. That R has a lot of slow speed time on it, which was part of the smoking problem. I don't mind a little smoke, a little rich won't hurt - run it lean and $$$$$.
i can agree with you on most of what you said. espically the " I don't mind a little smoke, a little rich won't hurt ".
makes sence.
makes sence.
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