PQIA"s synthetic find

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Originally Posted By: sopususer
Anybody notice the Pennzoil Platinum bottle pictured is 10w30? I wonder if the data is correct for PP 5w30 or if they made a mistake and got the 10w30?

It looks like they've fixed it. The label now shows 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Boys and Girls please make note of a first class individual.
smile.gif
Thanks Tom for your reply!!quote=skyship]
Extract from Waynes garage about Sodium (Na):
ACID NEUTRALIZERS
As the engine operates, combustion gasses acidic by-products from the sulfur in the fuel. The acids combine with moisture (every gallon of gasoline burnt produces ½ gallon of moisture) which dissolve bearing surfaces.
All modern motor oils contain sodium hydroxides (NaOH)


Motor oils do not contain NaOH.

Tom NJ [/quote] [/quote]

If you Google Sodium Hydroxide oil additive you will find it is rather popular, although just to confuse things there are traces of it in diesel fuel. I havn't looked up the exact chemical compound symbol as Waynes may have simplified it.
If you want to read up on Sodium based additives this is one typical PDF:
Trib PDF on salts. (Page 259)
The PDF for the EPI was the first I found but there are more if you find it hard to read.
Extract:
For sodium, calcium, and barium detergents, sodium hydroxide, calcium
hydroxide, and barium hydroxide are often used.
 
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I define better end of a range according to my own ideas of how the add pack should be balanced, you can't hit every upper limit, so some additives will need to be at the opposite end of the range to compensate. I have never said Moly is a bad additive when included in a balanced add pack, it can only cause trouble with some G4 synthetics when used as an after market snake oil, as can too much Zinc additive.
If you look again at the post that disturbed you and at the Castrol figures I am implying the oil might have exceeded the limiting ranges due to too many exact matches.
If an engine oil was designed they way you describe, it would in fact be a disaster because the total add pack would overwhelm the base stock in lubrication terms. It is the final balancing act of the additives that is important and Castrol are one great high wire act!
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Valvoline is not the only one to use sodium, Castrol uses it a good bit too, as do a bunch of store brand oils I've noticed but those are likely made by one of those two or Warren.

Mobil and SOPUS have avoided sodium thus far from what I've seen.


Most full synthetics in use in the EU don't contain more than 3ppm of Sodium according to Blackstones G4 VOA average figures, BUT you will see around 50 ppm of Na in some diesel UOA's (From Blackstones UA figures for Volvo TDI). My own Na figure for LM Synthoil are 0 in the VOA and only 5 in the UOA, probably from road salt in winter, although too much time at idle will increase that figure for some folks.
It can be tricky looking at Na figures if you don't have the VOA one and I suspect that folks that say Valvoline performs better than you might think from the VOA figures might be right if they are using high Sulphur fuel, as the TBN should hold up better.
I suspect the local German RV club that bulk buys Valvoline 15w40 for their diesels does it because many of them head into Eastern EU or Finland in the summer and they all use high Sulphur diesel fuel as a result, as do folks that head for Spain in winter.
 
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Originally Posted By: skyship

If you Google Sodium Hydroxide oil additive you will find it is rather popular, although just to confuse things there are traces of it in diesel fuel. I havn't looked up the exact chemical compound symbol as Waynes may have simplified it.
If you want to read up on Sodium based additives this is one typical PDF:
Trib PDF on salts. (Page 259)
The PDF for the EPI was the first I found but there are more if you find it hard to read.
Extract:
For sodium, calcium, and barium detergents, sodium hydroxide, calcium
hydroxide, and barium hydroxide are often used.


I'll not speak for Tom as he is more than able, but it is entirely possible that NaOH is used in the process of making other additives as opposed to being used straight up:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4218328
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: skyship

If you Google Sodium Hydroxide oil additive you will find it is rather popular, although just to confuse things there are traces of it in diesel fuel. I havn't looked up the exact chemical compound symbol as Waynes may have simplified it.
If you want to read up on Sodium based additives this is one typical PDF:
Trib PDF on salts. (Page 259)
The PDF for the EPI was the first I found but there are more if you find it hard to read.
Extract:
For sodium, calcium, and barium detergents, sodium hydroxide, calcium
hydroxide, and barium hydroxide are often used.


I'll not speak for Tom as he is more than able, but it is entirely possible that NaOH is used in the process of making other additives as opposed to being used straight up:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4218328


Exactly. The sodium in motor oils is from organometallic detergent compounds.

Phil did a good write-up here: Sodium Detergents

Tom NJ
 
That's exactly what it is Tempest. It even says so in the article that he linked.

Quote:
As mentioned, common metals that can be used to make neutral or basic detergents include sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, and barium. Calcium and magnesium find most extensive use as lubricant additives, with a preference for calcium due to its lower cost. The use of barium-derived detergents is being curbed due to concerns for barium’s toxicity.
Technically, one can use metal oxides, hydroxides, and carbonates to manufacture neutral(non-overbased) detergents; for non-overbased detergents, oxides and hydroxides are the preferred bases. For sodium, calcium, and barium detergents, sodium hydroxide, calcium hydroxide, and barium hydroxide are often used. For magnesium detergents, however,magnesium oxide is the preferred base.


Ed
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: sopususer
Anybody notice the Pennzoil Platinum bottle pictured is 10w30? I wonder if the data is correct for PP 5w30 or if they made a mistake and got the 10w30?

It looks like they've fixed it. The label now shows 5w30.


Yeah I saw it today. I was hoping I didn't imagine it, but since someone else saw it I guess it really did originally have the 10w30 bottle up.
 
Originally Posted By: skyship
I define better end of a range according to my own ideas of how the add pack should be balanced, you can't hit every upper limit, so some additives will need to be at the opposite end of the range to compensate. I have never said Moly is a bad additive when included in a balanced add pack, it can only cause trouble with some G4 synthetics when used as an after market snake oil, as can too much Zinc additive.
If you look again at the post that disturbed you and at the Castrol figures I am implying the oil might have exceeded the limiting ranges due to too many exact matches.
If an engine oil was designed they way you describe, it would in fact be a disaster because the total add pack would overwhelm the base stock in lubrication terms. It is the final balancing act of the additives that is important and Castrol are one great high wire act!


Listen here kid you have posted nearly 2100 posts in the last 8 months and I should not cast any stones but nearly 80% of your posts are phooey at best do us a favor and please do not post your point of view and present it as fact.
 
That was a good post by Molekule, thanks for reposting that Tom.

Quote:
The bottom line is, which detergent is used in a formulation depends mainly on market forces such as the availability of a certain type in the market place. This does not imply that a formulation is better or worse or that you, the consumer is being shortchanged.
 
I am impressed with QSUD's viscosity index. Also, the kinematic viscosity at 40C one of thinnest in the group. This could also be a nice "winter 5W30" in some cases.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Is PU better that Mobil 1 for extreme driving...

like the 24 Hours of Le Mans racing ?




In some way, 24 hours is not that extreme. The oil needs to perform its duty only 24 hours..
 
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Originally Posted By: electrolover
Is it just me, or do the numbers look really off compared to blackstone?


No it's not just you. I don't know what it is about VOA's but Blackstone's almost always seem off. UOA's for some reason seem better.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Is it just me, or do the numbers look really off compared to blackstone?


No it's not just you. I don't know what it is about VOA's but Blackstone's almost always seem off. UOA's for some reason seem better.


Can you please explain why Blackstone VOA's seem off, as I cross checked mine and they seemed very accurate.
 
Forgot to say in my last post that the additive figures do vary slightly between different batches of oil and some companies also change the base stock mix. LM recently made a slight increase in the Calcium content of my oil and the flashpoint that was enough for me to ask them for any revised figures, because I had purchased the oil on Fleabay and was wondering if it was a supermarket can swap job! The VOA flashpoint went from 425 to 440c which made me think it might be a different oil. Blackstone even repeated the test before I contacted LM.
 
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quote=Zako2]I am impressed with QSUD's viscosity index. Also, the kinematic viscosity at 40C one of thinnest in the group. This could also be a nice "winter 5W30" in some cases.[/quote]


Maybe this is why it seems to work well in the wife's Corolla. It does get cold here and the car just purrs with the QSUD in it.


________________________
03 Corolla-5-30 QSUD and Wix filter
04 Rav4-5-30 Havoline and Wix filter
 
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