PQIA issues Advisory for Lucas HDEO

[Tom NJ]

Lucas Magnum 15w40 HDEO lists the wrong viscosity on the label. The PQIA sample test results show this product is actually a 10W-40.

Petroleum Quality Institute of America

Tom NJ

 

[tinmanSC]

15w-40 vs 10w-40? Isn't that kinda... *shrug*?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I love how the plural is possessive ...

 

[DemoFly]

Uhh...I'm not even mad.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
15w-40 vs 10w-40? Isn't that kinda... *shrug*?


They are stating their findings and comparing them to the
SAE standards.

Quote:
As stated in SAE standard J300, "Since each W grade is defined on the basis of maximum cranking and pumping viscosities as well as minimum Kinematic viscosities at 100’C, it is possible for an oil to satisfy the requirements of more than one W grade. In labeling either a W grade or a multiviscosity grade oil, only the lowest W grade satisfied may be referred to on the label."

SAE J300 goes on to say "A manufacturer may not release a product if its CCS viscosity as measured by the manufacturer is less than or equal to the stated limit of the next lower W grade." Since this oil meets both the cranking and pumping viscosity specifications for 10W, this product should be labeled as a 10W-40.


So PIQA is correct to suggest a labeling change.

 

[chubbs1]

MoleKule, I see the technical part and in no way am I backing Lucas BUT, a 10w40 would still be a 40 grade but with better basestock and improved cold temp performance over a 15w40.

In other words, it is not a "danger" to a vehicle.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1

In other words, it is not a "danger" to a vehicle.


Advisories do not indicate the product poses a danger. Advisories are intended to advise consumers to be certain the oil is suitable for their intended use, and are issued when the product analysis is inconsistent with the labeled claims or specifications.

If a product has significant potential to cause harm to equipment, PQIA issues a Consumer Alert.

Tom NJ

 

[dparm]

Honestly I don't think this is a huge deal. RLI has even said their own 15w40 basically passes as a 5w40 and is almost a 0w40, yet it is labeled as a 15w40 simply for marketing to the HDEO crowd.

Modern basestocks are of course way better than those of old.

 

[Pablo]

Pretty sure Amsoil violates that one from time to time (

)

 

[dave1251]

Will the PQIA start testing "straight" SAE 30 grades? I would like to see how many advisories that will be issued.

 

[Tom NJ]

The industry rule on labeling has an important purpose and is taken seriously. Without this W grade labeling rule, companies can formulate a 0W-40 oil and market the same product as a 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40, 15w40, 20W-40, and 25W-40. It would certainly save the oil company manufacturing and inventory costs, but would deceive the customers.

Engine oil viscosity is very important and consumers are entitled to receive the grade they want to purchase. It's not up to us to tell them what we think is best for them.

Tom NJ

 

[Clevy]

It really doesn't surprise me that any Lucas product has a warning. I just don't trust them at all.
Its because they sell that oil stabilizer. In my mind its a scam and utter garbage. Sure it makes money but at the expense of the consumer who doesn't know any better.
Take liqui-moly for example. Their additives are fantastic and to even put them under the snake oil blanket just sickens me. Here is a company that puts out products that perform as advertised yet they are dismissed because they are an additive and therefore snake oil. Pfffffft.
Lucas sponsors alot of events that I consider the roots of Motorsport and it bothers me that they make that money selling junk like an oil stabilizer.

Good on the PQIA for calling a spade a spade

 

[hardcore302]

Tom NJ, I hear what you are saying and I agree. If it was a problem there wyould be a consumer alert.

 

[Cristobal]

I am sure that Lucas will fix it.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
It really doesn't surprise me that any Lucas product has a warning. I just don't trust them at all.
Its because they sell that oil stabilizer. In my mind its a scam and utter garbage. Sure it makes money but at the expense of the consumer who doesn't know any better.
Take liqui-moly for example. Their additives are fantastic and to even put them under the snake oil blanket just sickens me.


Since you are selling those liqui-moly snake oils, can I order a few for myself?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: Clevy
It really doesn't surprise me that any Lucas product has a warning. I just don't trust them at all.
Its because they sell that oil stabilizer. In my mind its a scam and utter garbage. Sure it makes money but at the expense of the consumer who doesn't know any better.
Take liqui-moly for example. Their additives are fantastic and to even put them under the snake oil blanket just sickens me.


Since you are selling those liqui-moly snake oils, can I order a few for myself?


Selling? Not a chance. I'm buying every single can I can find and hoarding them for myself. I'm not in the least bit kidding.
Have a look. Another new post with fuel consumption tracking mileage as well as posting on how his car is running and you'll see another convert.
He's so thrilled with mos2 he is going to use it in the rest of his vehicles.
The unenlightened can say what they want. Its falling in deaf ears

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Will the PQIA start testing "straight" SAE 30 grades? I would like to see how many advisories that will be issued.

That would be pretty interesting, wouldn't it?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
The industry rule on labeling has an important purpose and is taken seriously. Without this W grade labeling rule, companies can formulate a 0W-40 oil and market the same product as a 0W-40, 5W-40, 10W-40, 15w40, 20W-40, and 25W-40. It would certainly save the oil company manufacturing and inventory costs, but would deceive the customers.

Engine oil viscosity is very important and consumers are entitled to receive the grade they want to purchase. It's not up to us to tell them what we think is best for them.
Tom NJ

Tom I hear what you're saying and I agree with the advisory to show the correct SAE grade on the bottle. But as has been mentioned Lucas is not the only culprit in this. PQIA should test all 15w40 synthetics because I'm sure they're all fudging on the labeling.
That said I wouldn't describe the mislabeling as an attempt to deceive since the customer is actually getting more than he bargained for. The reality is that the SAE grade is as much about marketing as anything else. If the customer really wants to know the actual spec's of an oil it's the PDS he or she should be looking at.

 

[jake88]

I'm on board with the others here - the fact that the oil meets a cranking viscosity of a 10W-XX grade does not really mean that it should be flagged as mislabeled.

If you look at the SAE J300, there are only maximum CCS and MRV viscosities to meet any specified xW- grade. The important distinction between a 10W-40 and 15w40 is that the minimum HTHS visocisty of 3.7cP is retained (a 10W-40 must only be 2.9cP @ HTHS). Rather than issue an advisory, it would have been more prudent to test HTHS viscosity of the oil, in my opinion.

 

[Jim Allen]

PQIA is right. It's a mislabeled product. If it's labelled as a 15W40, it should meet those standards. All Lucas has to do is call it a 10W40, tell people how great that is (and it is a good thing overall) and sell more product.