PPS or PPK for a 1st gun?

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Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: hansj3
.....An lcr if you are going to abide by the recommendation for a revolver.

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Nothing wrong with a Smith Airweight.


LCR and airweight are good carry guns in their own right. They would be a terrible first home defense pistol though, for many reasons.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I carry my .380 with fmj. I just don't see a .380 penetrating clothing and a person and going through and through to hit someone else. That would be a worry with FMJ rounds in 9mm power or in larger powered calibers.


.380 FMJ will easily go through a person and continue down range. .380 FMJ has a lot more penetration than you think. Stick to Gold Dots, XTP, or Hyrashocks in .380.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
There is also Polish P-64 that is very similar to a PPK in size and looks. It is chambered for the more robust 9x18 Makarov rounds. Quite cheap and very reliable.

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/pp-tp-series/16516-ppk-p64-similarities.html


While a cool gun to own, as a self defense weapon i'd have to go with something newer and more reliable. Those are not big but not as light weight either as newer SD guns.


This. Surplus guns are surplus guns for a reason. He can get a new gun for about the same price that would be a much better option.
 
OP, years and years of training and experience in this very topic here. I eat, breath, and sleep home defense and defensive firearm use. Lucky you
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First things first, you never mentioned your budget. Are we working with $200, $500, $1000, or sky is the limit? Based on budget, I can tailor some recommendations.

Second, if you are REALLY interested in proper home defense tactics, your primary home defense weapon should be a long gun (shot gun or carbine). Long guns are more accurate, more powerful, and potentially hold more ammo (carbine). The military and cops don’t go into a known gun fight with just a pistol, and for good reason. They always bring a rifle. And friends with rifles. If you are SERIOUS about surviving a deadly encounter in your home, you need to realize that long guns beat handguns. Every time. Depending on your budget, you can get a double barrel 28” shotgun for $150 at any pawn shop in America. Cut the barrel to 18” and good to go. A slightly better, and usually more expensive option, is a pump action shotgun. 12 or 20 gauge, doesn’t matter. Both are powerful enough for home defense. A Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 pump shotgun can be found for $200-$300 on average. Load shotguns with buckshot, never birdshot, for home defense. For a carbine, you can get a decent mini-14 or AR-15 for $550-$1000. These are the cream of the crop home defense guns. I highly recommend a semi-auto carbine, if you can afford it, as a primary home defense gun. Whatever long gun you buy, you are much more effective with that long gun if you have a flashlight mounted to it. Most crimes happen at night, and you are 5000% better equipped to handle a situation if you can see the situation. Don’t seriously handicap yourself by not having a light.

Now that we have explored the idea of a long gun, we get to the pistol portion of the home defense equation. Pistols have their use. They are highly portable. They are good to have in your hand behind your back as you answer a knock on the door. They are also good for when you hear a noise and just want to check it out but don’t actually think it is an intruder. If you ACTUALLY think there’s an intruder, you need to be reaching for that long gun.

Are you going to train with the handgun (regularly)? Are you going to practice type 1, type 2, and type 3 malfunction drills? These should be mandatory training for those that use a semi-auto. If you are the kind of guy that just wants a pistol around and most likely won’t get “real” training with it, than a revolver is not a bad idea. I know you said that you are not interested in a revolver. Lots of people aren’t, because they think they are just old antiquated technology. But they are a lot more forgiving and reliable when you consider some people just won’t get the proper training and practice with a semi-auto. I’ve read numerous stories of people using a gun for defense, it jams after the first round and then they are seriously injured or killed because their gun jammed and they didn’t know how to quickly clear it. Seriously rethink the idea of a revolver if you can’t or won’t train regularly. A 4”-6” steel frame 6, 7, or 8 shot revolver loaded with .38 special +p hollow point ammo is a formidable defensive weapon, and an ideal weapon for people that just want a gun in the night stand.

I’m flabbergasted at the idea of a PPK or PPS as a primary home defense arm. These are not very good choices, in my opinion. They are small, low capacity, and .380 is under-powered for home defense, in the case of the PPK. I don’t want you to get all offended that I’m poopooing on your choices here, just listen to my reasoning. Smaller pistols require a lot more training. They require a better, stronger grip on the frame to limit a limp wrist style jam. Instead, look at a 4” to 5” inch barreled full size railed 9mm semi-auto, high capacity pistol. Since its going in a night stand, you don’t have to worry about small concealability. They are much less likely to jam and they carry more ammunition.

Get a railed pistol so you can mount a flashlight on it. Some folks recommend a separate flashlight. I recommend a flashlight on your pistol, so it’s always there in case you need it. Flashlights get bumped off nightstands and misplaced, guns hardly ever get displaced. If you have a flashlight mounted to the weapon, you will be prepared when the time comes. A separate, hand held light is also a good idea, in addition to, a flashlight mounted on your weapon. One argument often repeated on the web is some people don’t want to point the flashlight/gun at something to see what it is. You don’t have to. Weapon lights are 200-600 lumens today and they will easily light up an entire room with the weapon pointed safely at the floor or ceiling.

Some good options for home defense pistols.

1) Ruger GP100, Smith & Wesson 686+, or Taurus 65, 608 4" steel frame revolvers (if you won’t get the proper training.)
2) Glock 17 or 19 ($500)
3) Any full-size Beretta 9mm ($600-800)
4) Any full-size Sig Sauer 9mm ($800-900)
5) Walther PPX, PPQ, P99 ($279-600)
6) Ruger SR9 ($400)
7) Canik TP9v2 ($330. Excellent budget handgun. Amazing value.)
8) CZ-75 and clone pistols ($250-750)
9) HK VP9 ($550. Made in Germany, and you know the Germans make good stuff )
10) Springfield XD ($450)
11) Smith & Wesson SD9 VE ($300. Glock copy. Amazing value)
12) Smith & Wesson M&P9 ($425)
13) Steyr M9 ($450. Supposedly designed by Glock/HK engineers. An improved Glock)

Load your 9MM up with police style duty hollow point ammo. Maybe even talk to local police officers and see what they are carrying. The most common duty ammunition used in the country today is Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, and Winchester Ranger. These are premium loads and offer better performance than typical JHP loads. And you can get them in 50 rd boxes from online ammo dealers which will save you money over buying 20 rd boxes at your local dealers.

So in conclusion, get a long gun. Than get a full size service style pistol for the night stand. Mount a flashlight on your long gun and on your pistol. Get some training. Do these things and you will be well prepared to handle a tough situation.

Any questions, just ask.
 
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
- lots of recommendations for full size 9mm vs compacts / sub-compacts: again, just in case it was missed. I do have small-ish hands; will i still be ok with a full-size 9mm?
(I know again, the best way is to actually handle the guns, but just wanted to add that in case some of you missed that info)


Some grips are larger than others. Glocks, in general, have blockier grips that aren't as suitable to smaller hands. The 4th generation Glocks are the best in this regard -- they've been recontoured slightly. They also feature replaceable grip panels, which help customize the fit to your hands. I think an M&P or SD9VE (an EXCELLENT suggestion by Bubbatime) may be more appropriate for you, because the frame feels a bit thinner (especially up near the top) and I bet it has a slightly shorter length of pull (distance from the back of the grip to the trigger).

Bubbatime's (and others') suggestion of a shotgun is an appropriate one for home defense. My primary home defense weapon is a Mossberg 500A, in 20 inch barrel with an 8 shell magazine tube. You can find European-made shotguns, but they'll start to get expensive. The Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 can both be bought in big box stores for around 400 bucks.

I'd consider what your primary purpose is of this purchase. If home defense is #1, and all else is secondary or can come at a later time, a shotgun is the best suggestion. However, if the other factors (such as learning good shooter skills and taking concealed carry training), and you wish to buy only one gun for now, then a pistol is a fine choice, and will serve both purposes.

You will need to obtain a pistol purchase permit from Cumberland County Sheriff's Office prior to purchasing a pistol. Here's the website on that:

http://www.ccsonc.org/specialservices.htm

Looks like they have an online application process now. When I did mine before I got my concealed handgun permit, you had to show up in person to turn the application in.

If I'm not mistaken, a long gun purchase requires only a background check at the store at the time of purchase.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
You will need to obtain a pistol purchase permit from Cumberland County Sheriff's Office prior to purchasing a pistol.


You're kidding? In North Carolina you have to be permitted in order to buy a handgun?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
You're kidding? In North Carolina you have to be permitted in order to buy a handgun?


Handgun purchases are by permit, yes. They were successful in passing wide-ranging gun law reform last year, allowing us to carry in many more places where we once could not, and the purchase permit repeal was part of the original legislation, but the liberals in Raleigh got that taken out of the bill.

Many see the pistol purchase permit as a hold-over from Jim Crow-era laws where Sheriffs had wide latitude to deny the purchase of handguns based on once's race. All they do is run the same background check that the gun store runs when you buy a gun. Nobody but the congressional liberals in Raleigh see the merit to this pistol purchase permit program which is highly ironic to me. If you have a concealed handgun permit, you're good to go, and don't need to apply for the permit separately.

None of our neighbors have this silly law. South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, etc.

It's about the only part of NC gun laws that I object to. Otherwise, I'm agreeable to most of our gun laws. We have no magazine restrictions. We can carry open and concealed. We don't have to register our firearms, and don't have to have a license in order to own them. It's just that initial purchase that is simply paper proof of a background check. Dumb.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
I felt a lot better about guns with a manual safety. It's extra training for me, but if through some serious lapse on my part one of the kids got their hands on a loaded gun,

A safety being on, on a loaded gun found by a kid is zero reassurance. You shouldn't even consider the possibility that a kid could get to your loaded gun. If you can't assure yourself of that...empty it and put a lock on it and throw away the key (and the gun)

The gun is either on my person or locked up, period.
I constantly remind myself of the consequences if unsupervised little hands find the gun - IMO the best way to keep yourself vigilant is to keep yourself somewhat paranoid. As a result of that paranoia, I wanted a gun with a safety. Irrational? Maybe.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
- IMO the best way to keep yourself vigilant is to keep yourself somewhat paranoid. As a result of that paranoia, I wanted a gun with a safety. Irrational? Maybe.

Understanmd
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Any questions, just ask.


No questions -- just want to acknowledge what an excellent post that is.

Great stuff, Bubba!
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
All they do is run the same background check that the gun store runs when you buy a gun. Nobody but the congressional liberals in Raleigh see the merit to this pistol purchase permit program which is highly ironic to me. If you have a concealed handgun permit, you're good to go, and don't need to apply for the permit separately.


Here in Arizona we can now carry concealed or open without a permit. I still keep my CCW valid because it exempts you from going through a background check for any gun purchases. I like that because the "Instacheck System" goes down all the time.

I remember I was at a gun show here at the Fairgrounds a couple of years back, buying a couple of AK-47's from J&G Sales. Right at the same time the system went down, and all gun sales stopped for about an hour. By that time I was on my way home. Only the guys with CCW Permits could purchase.
 
For what it's worth I have a Walther PPQ 9mm and yes it's made here by S&W, but it's never missed a beat apart from when I got some strange make of Korean ammunition that it definitely did not like. Mine is an M1 which has the paddle mag release and I like that compared to the traditional American style. Do as others have suggested and get what you find comfortable.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Here in Arizona we can now carry concealed or open without a permit.


We can open carry without a permit. But we have to have a permit to carry concealed. I'm not quite sure what the difference is -- the very little training you have to take to get the concealed permit applies to open carry as well...legality issues, holstering and presentation techniques, lame target qualification test, etc.

Some states' gun laws are really curious to me. Like our half-baked permit process. Like in SC, where you can't carry in a church. Like in FL, where you can't open carry period (only concealed).

MD is really tore up. A coworker of mine is from there, and she said that her dad has been trying to get a carry permit for a long time. MD is a "may issue" state, meaning you have to demonstrate a good and valid reason for needing to carry. Otherwise, they won't issue a permit. And, of course, the 10-rd magazine restriction. Unless you buy it out of state, then it's legal to own. Huh?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
We can open carry without a permit. But we have to have a permit to carry concealed.


We used to have it that way. Then they changed it to open or concealed with or without a permit. As I said, I still keep my permit valid because it's better to than not to. You don't have to be re finger printed, just fill out the form and send in the money. That's what it's all about anyway. They want the $$$$$$.

We can now carry in bars, which we couldn't before. The anti's were all up in arms over that. Nothing bad has happened. Our past Governor Jan Brewer, ("Second Amendment Jan"), did a LOT for gun owners here. She was one of the most pro gun Governors in the country. Gun owners here really miss her. She HATED Obama. Everyone remembers the now famous picture of her wagging her finger in Obama's face, and chewing his a$$ out on the tarmac, when he came here and stepped off Air Force One. Priceless!

http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2...20125076345.jpg
 
This is a great explanation of NC's revised gun laws, and is relevant to the OP in this case:

http://civitasreview.com/legislation/new-nc-gun-law-explained/

It used to be a felony to even have a handgun in the vehicle on school property. Now, you are not committing a felony if you pick your kid up with your firearm locked in the car. We can also carry now in parades, funerals, places that sell alcohol, and places that charge admission. As the article says, we indeed did not get the silly pistol purchase permit regulation repealed, but there is an improvement: the Sheriff has to provide justification for NOT issuing one. So it's really gone to just a silly box to check and small amount of cash to hand over.
 
Look into a S@W Shield. Walthers are nice though. Good customer service is important I have had both Ruger and S@W repair work experience myself and one of my friends owned a gun shop and has nothing but good to say about the aforementioned brands. The Smith .I have 6 Jframes[I like them]I didn't like the endshake on a 442 it measured with in specs but S@W repaired it with out question. and Ruger I bought a P95 that out of the box quit ejecting psent casings after it warmed up so Ruger sent a shipping label and repaired it . It did the same thing . Sent it back on rugers dime and 4,000rounds later with cleaning every 1,000 rounds and oiling every 250 rounds has been flawless . It is my beater gun! I have a P99 it is actually really really nice.
 
Look into a S@W Shield. Walthers are nice though. Good customer service is important I have had both Ruger and S@W repair work experience myself and one of my friends owned a gun shop and has nothing but good to say about the aforementioned brands. The Smith .I have 6 Jframes[I like them]I didn't like the endshake on a 442 it measured with in specs but S@W repaired it with out question. and Ruger I bought a P95 that out of the box quit ejecting spent casings after it warmed up so Ruger sent a shipping label and repaired it . It did the same thing . Sent it back on Rugers dime They installed a new slide and 4,000rounds later with cleaning every 1,000 rounds and oiling every 250 rounds has been flawless . It is my beater gun! I have a P99 it is actually really, really nice.
 
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