PP & PPU not good

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Alex38
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
After seeing testing data on the new PP and UP, I am not impressed. I am sticking to Mobil 1.


Care to elaborate?


http://540ratblog.wordpress.com

This is the only test available that contains all oils on the market. Going by this test data, Mobil 1 was neck and neck with Amsoil 0W30 SS oil and Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum didn't fare that great. Mobil 1 is proven and seems to offer great protection for the price and it's readily available. Mobil 1 is also endorsed and recommended by more automakers than any other oil out there.

I have been using Mobil 1 for over 20 years and have never suffered any oil related failure. I have had great results with Mobil 1 and all of my UOA have come back very favorable through Blackstone labs. If it ain't broke, why bother switching? I haven't seen any concrete test data out there other than Pennzoil's own claims that show Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil SS 0W30.

Show me test data that shows Pennzoil's new pure plus technology to be better than Mobil 1 and I will switch tomorrow!!!


This "test" has been discussed ad nauseam here as being very inaccurate to the point it may be classified as a one armed bandit. I personally have placed SOPUS and XOM as both being top tier products for the everyday driver and each company's products are comparable and respective performance are within a mouse hair of each other.

So the question really does come down to price, availability, and personal preference.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Alex38
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
After seeing testing data on the new PP and UP, I am not impressed. I am sticking to Mobil 1.


Care to elaborate?


http://540ratblog.wordpress.com

This is the only test available that contains all oils on the market. Going by this test data, Mobil 1 was neck and neck with Amsoil 0W30 SS oil and Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum didn't fare that great. Mobil 1 is proven and seems to offer great protection for the price and it's readily available. Mobil 1 is also endorsed and recommended by more automakers than any other oil out there.

I have been using Mobil 1 for over 20 years and have never suffered any oil related failure. I have had great results with Mobil 1 and all of my UOA have come back very favorable through Blackstone labs. If it ain't broke, why bother switching? I haven't seen any concrete test data out there other than Pennzoil's own claims that show Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil SS 0W30.

Show me test data that shows Pennzoil's new pure plus technology to be better than Mobil 1 and I will switch tomorrow!!!


He rates Rotella T6 at #114. Many UOA's have shown low wear running T6 under hard conditions or normal conditions and long drains.

Wear under short drain racing may not match up to performance over a normal or extended drain. Shear/dilution doesn't seem to be in his parameters for performance, I'll admit I didn't read the whole article, though.

 

[Koz1]

This is a good point one I noticed as well Rotella T6 comes as champ in UOA but a looser in the max PSI test.
Maybe just maybe the PSI test is only good predicting max RPMs and High load, not actual driving conditions and low average load.
There are massive number of variables when considering 6 months or 12,000 kms in a oil sump for the average driver.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
This is a good point one I noticed as well Rotella T6 comes as champ in UOA but a looser in the max PSI test.
Maybe just maybe the PSI test is only good predicting max RPMs and High load, not actual driving conditions and low average load.
There are massive number of variables when considering 6 months or 12,000 kms in a oil sump for the average driver.


The PSI test doesn't predict anything because the pressures tested are never experienced in your engine.

This is like using steel plate to evaluate hunting bullet performance. By that metric we should all be hunting deer with a .50BMG using depleted Uranium rounds

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
This is a good point one I noticed as well Rotella T6 comes as champ in UOA but a looser in the max PSI test.
Maybe just maybe the PSI test is only good predicting max RPMs and High load, not actual driving conditions and low average load.
There are massive number of variables when considering 6 months or 12,000 kms in a oil sump for the average driver.





What max psi test.


You can't be seriously giving the one armed bandit method of oil testing any actual clout are you.

You do understand that ratt's testing method has no actual resemblance to how an engine and the oil that's in it behaves.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Alex38
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
After seeing testing data on the new PP and UP, I am not impressed. I am sticking to Mobil 1.


Care to elaborate?


http://540ratblog.wordpress.com

This is the only test available that contains all oils on the market. Going by this test data, Mobil 1 was neck and neck with Amsoil 0W30 SS oil and Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum didn't fare that great. Mobil 1 is proven and seems to offer great protection for the price and it's readily available. Mobil 1 is also endorsed and recommended by more automakers than any other oil out there.

I have been using Mobil 1 for over 20 years and have never suffered any oil related failure. I have had great results with Mobil 1 and all of my UOA have come back very favorable through Blackstone labs. If it ain't broke, why bother switching? I haven't seen any concrete test data out there other than Pennzoil's own claims that show Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil SS 0W30.

Show me test data that shows Pennzoil's new pure plus technology to be better than Mobil 1 and I will switch tomorrow!!!




Here it is posted again by a new guy who thinks it means anything.


Every week this absurdity gets posted and every week we explain why that particular load of data is just that,a load.


Try the search function and read up on why that data is meaningless in an internal combustion engine b


Pert plus did real well in that test too,perhaps you should try it in your engine.

 

[GM4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Originally Posted By: Alex38
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
After seeing testing data on the new PP and UP, I am not impressed. I am sticking to Mobil 1.


Care to elaborate?


http://540ratblog.wordpress.com

This is the only test available that contains all oils on the market. Going by this test data, Mobil 1 was neck and neck with Amsoil 0W30 SS oil and Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum didn't fare that great. Mobil 1 is proven and seems to offer great protection for the price and it's readily available. Mobil 1 is also endorsed and recommended by more automakers than any other oil out there.

I have been using Mobil 1 for over 20 years and have never suffered any oil related failure. I have had great results with Mobil 1 and all of my UOA have come back very favorable through Blackstone labs. If it ain't broke, why bother switching? I haven't seen any concrete test data out there other than Pennzoil's own claims that show Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1 or Amsoil SS 0W30.

Show me test data that shows Pennzoil's new pure plus technology to be better than Mobil 1 and I will switch tomorrow!!!




Here it is posted again by a new guy who thinks it means anything.


Every week this absurdity gets posted and every week we explain why that particular load of data is just that,a load.


Try the search function and read up on why that data is meaningless in an internal combustion engine b


Pert plus did real well in that test too,perhaps you should try it in your engine.


Ok, fine. Where is some concrete data that shows Pennzoil Ultra and Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1? I want to believe, but I am not finding anything that will convince me to switch from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil.

 

[Koz1]

I was trying to get that across, lol.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
Ok, fine. Where is some concrete data that shows Pennzoil Ultra and Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1? I want to believe, but I am not finding anything that will convince me to switch from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil.

Again, according to SOPUS, PP and PU both beat M1 on the ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test. That is some concrete data, if you can get your hands on it, but if it were not true, XOM would have called out SOPUS on it already. But again, you have to ask yourself a question: how relevant is it really to my engine's longevity?

Similarly, how relevant to your engine's longevity is people's blabbering on BITOG about PP and PU not being as good as they used to?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Pert plus did real well in that test too,perhaps you should try it in your engine.

I hear there is a new Pert PurePlus with GTL now. As soon as there is a "buy 5qt and a FRAM filter" deal on it, I'm in!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE


Ok, fine. Where is some concrete data that shows Pennzoil Ultra and Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1? I want to believe, but I am not finding anything that will convince me to switch from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil.


There isn't any. That's why I made this pic for the piston cleanliness claims:

You'll notice in the Mobil 1 pictures (which shows ALL the pistons) that one of them (the worst one) conveniently looks just like the one in the SOPUS picture, which only shows one piston

Oils that meet the same performance specifications will generally perform equally in the applications that require an oil meeting those specifications.

Considering SOPUS and Mobil both co-own Infineum, they have access to the same additive technologies as well.

Ultimately they both make world-class synthetic lubricants. Use one or the other, which ever you are most comfortable with or use both. It is ultimately personal preference.

I think the big difference is Mobil's much more diverse synthetic product portfolio with their AFE line-up, their 0w-40...etc. Both products that Shell doesn't have direct competition for at this point as their 0w-40 Euro oil isn't available here and their 5w-40, though it meets basically all the same spec's as M1 0w-40, well, isn't a 0w-40.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: Alex38
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE
After seeing testing data on the new PP and UP, I am not impressed. I am sticking to Mobil 1.


Care to elaborate?


Must be because of the Paraffin Wax haha jk! PP and PU are great oils.

 

[Quest]

at this stage of my mech life: all I ever care for is ring land cleanliness, and also viscosity able to hold up throughout my OCI intervals.

Pretty much all national brand name motor oil, be they conventional or exotic (high-end), still gets the job done admirably and makes a modern-day engine easily outlasts the metal chassis or body these days.

I laughed hard when I saw/witnessed/encountered automobiles that starts to burn oil around 150k, even though owner has been religiously having them changed with so-called national brand "full-syn" oil, only to realise that (a) their faulty thermostat failed w/o knowing; which partially to blame for (b) PCV valve plugging up causing exacerbated lubricant contamination in the crankcase.

Thought that the pointless debate RE: paraffinic based lubricant vs naphthalitic based lubricant was pretty much over by now, and now comes the debate as to which so-called "full-syn" cleanse better, makes me wonder what's new under the "lubrication" sun these days....

Q.

 

[fdcg27]

And?
I've used lots of different oils over the past forty years, M1 among them, and I've never had an oil related engine failure either.
Matter of fact, I've never had an engine failure of any kind.
UOAs?
I've posted four of them here from four different machines, three using PP 5W-30 and one using Nextgen Maxife 10W-40.
All looked very nice.
There are lots of good oils out there.
M1 is only one of them.
M1 as well as every other syn is an unneeded luxury for most applications.
Got a couple of jugs of M1 5W-20 in the stash at the moment that came to twelve bucks each after MIR.
That's how you buy M1, or any other oil.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I've used lots of different oils over the past forty years, M1 among them, and I've never had an oil related engine failure either.
Matter of fact, I've never had an engine failure of any kind.


LOL, before I became BITOG memeber, I did OCI every 6000-7000 miles using the cheapest oils available and no lubrication failure either.

 

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
The lab data at PQIA shows little difference in the parameters they tested between prior PP and PP with PurePlus Technology GTL.

Previous PP

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/pennzoilplt.htm

PP with PurePlus Technology GTL

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/pennzplatinum.htm


That's probably because SOPUS has been using GTL in its formulations for quite some time before they actually announced it.


So you can tell us the dates you mention when this started?

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: GM4LIFE


Ok, fine. Where is some concrete data that shows Pennzoil Ultra and Ultra Platinum to be better than Mobil 1? I want to believe, but I am not finding anything that will convince me to switch from Mobil 1 to Pennzoil.


There isn't any. That's why I made this pic for the piston cleanliness claims:

You'll notice in the Mobil 1 pictures (which shows ALL the pistons) that one of them (the worst one) conveniently looks just like the one in the SOPUS picture, which only shows one piston

That's a good observation, at least if you're just looking at skirt deposits. But the M1 piston in the Pennzoil ad has fewer ring land deposits than most of the M1 pistons in the Mobil ad. But I do take your point that the PU piston could have been a cherry-picked best case example.

 

[RF Overlord]

I can't believe we're still debating M1 vs. PP...it's like the old "Less filling/Tastes great" commercial.

BOTH are top quality products which are, for the most part, far superior to what an engine requires to lead a long and happy life.

Although I'm partial to Pennzoil products, putting aside my dislike of ExxonMobil for philosophical reasons, M1 is a great oil and I would not hesitate to use it in my car if PP were not available for some reason.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord

BOTH are top quality products which are, for the most part, far superior to what an engine requires to lead a long and happy life.


Exactly. Since the average motorist seems to change their oil far too early almost any synthetic or blend will greatly exceed their needs.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

That's a good observation, at least if you're just looking at skirt deposits. But the M1 piston in the Pennzoil ad has fewer ring land deposits than most of the M1 pistons in the Mobil ad. But I do take your point that the PU piston could have been a cherry-picked best case example.


There's probably a 25% variance between the bottom left Mobil piston and the top right one based on the pictures

And the ring land area on the bottom two pistons is a fair bit cleaner too, the bottom left being the cleanest. I mean you could make the SOPUS picture out of the bottom-left and top-right Mobil pistons basically, LOL!