PP 5w30, 8198 miles on '08 Civic Si: High Pb & Sn?

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Originally Posted By: Evan78
As already mentioned, you could always just shift earlier without having to lower the rev limiter. Just aim for a few hundred rpm earlier than you currently are.


That's easier said then done! I've already modified the car's program to limit me to 8200 RPM. I just need to upload it to my car when I get a chance. Since I'm trying to track down the source of the Pb and Sn with some degree of scientific method in place I want to make sure I'm not traveling into the >8200 RPM range rather then just guess.
 
Ordnance -

My SI just finished a run with PP 5w30 for 10.3k miles, with alot different driving habits than yours but possibly alot more WOT too.....I hit redline/8100/8200 rpms about 5-6 times a day on average, including a fair number of 3rd and 4th gear runs (meaning i'm going wot above 7500 rpms for longer than 1st or 2nd gear).

Yours looks great. As you pointed out, I'd imagine the Hondata reflash would actually give the car a slightly easier time during cam switchover.

Your copper continues to trend down. Your lead has a very small (noise) spike. Easy to get those when doing clutch side-steps and other hard launching. Or it could simply be a bit more breakin.

Regardless, looks like a winner to me. Run it for a year or longer at this pace (i.e. 10k miles).

Joe

P.s. 79k on my 06 SI now. Just got it inspected and other than the shop claiming i needed rear brakes (which, 5k before, they had plenty of life left on them), it's been running great. Decided to do my own valve adjustment and spark plugs next year (100k miles). This car is an absolute tank as long as you don't rip apart 2nd gear, change the trans fluid annually or so, and otherwise keep up the maintenance. Love getting 29-30mpg year round with lots of daily redlining and cruising at 80mph.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Sounds good. About the midrange torque, I was just saying normally an OE engine will give up high speed torque in favor of midrange, and with Vtec Honda certainly could have a very broad and flat TQ curve if they wanted one, but for whatever reasons Honda decided on "two" power ranges for their motor.


Finished tuning using Hondata's FlashPro a few weeks ago and now you'll notice a much smoother torque curve. VTEC engagement is now at 2900 RPM which was determined to be the best point with my modifications during the dyno tuning session. The green line was using one of the base tunes that came with the software with only some air-fuel street tuning using the OEM semi-wideband O2 sensor and the blue line was the result of the full tuning. Only additional modifications over my earlier dyno runs was my cold-air intake and the lightweight pulleys. The car has noticably more power across all RPMs to the point that I'll roast my Maximum Performance Summer tires if I launch much above idle.

DavesSiDyno23JAN2010.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Maybe sand can be abrasive w/o showing on UOA if it is coarse enough.


I'd think anything large enough to cause a problem would be caught by the oil filter though. Especially looking at the very low Al and Fe (considering how young the engine is and how it's driven) I'd think the oil is pretty clean. I pretty much have to throw out this current change at least until I sample part way through the OCI due to the fact that I spent a good bit of time on the dyno going to 8500 RPM and have some other hard running that's been done. If the sample comes out showing low Pb and Sn then I'll continue doing what I'm doing. If it's still higher than average I will start modifying the three main variables I mentioned (max RPM, pulleys, short shifting).
 
Originally Posted By: OrdnanceMarine
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Sounds good. About the midrange torque, I was just saying normally an OE engine will give up high speed torque in favor of midrange, and with Vtec Honda certainly could have a very broad and flat TQ curve if they wanted one, but for whatever reasons Honda decided on "two" power ranges for their motor.


Finished tuning using Hondata's FlashPro a few weeks ago and now you'll notice a much smoother torque curve. VTEC engagement is now at 2900 RPM which was determined to be the best point with my modifications during the dyno tuning session. The green line was using one of the base tunes that came with the software with only some air-fuel street tuning using the OEM semi-wideband O2 sensor and the blue line was the result of the full tuning. Only additional modifications over my earlier dyno runs was my cold-air intake and the lightweight pulleys. The car has noticably more power across all RPMs to the point that I'll roast my Maximum Performance Summer tires if I launch much above idle.

DavesSiDyno23JAN2010.jpg



Nice dyno !!!
 
Thanks! WAY better than I would have thought. It's unbelievable how much different this car is over stock. Sure wish Honda would turn them out this way from the factory.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
242 HP at the wheels on a Civic Si? That's bad axe, man!!


242 at the hubs (wheels removed). Probably would lose about ~6 HP or so if HP were being measured at the wheels if I was to dyno with my lightweight (37 lb each) wheels. Still, this car is rated at 197 HP at the crank meaning that I'm probably seeing ~265 HP at the crank with just bolt-ons, tuning and 91 octane fuel (no cams or other engine work). I'm also still managing ~34 MPG in the city and couldn't be happier!
 
Got a kit version of an Ariel Atom I should be starting sometime in the next year, with this powertrain going in. You got me fired up about my project all over again! What a drag house-hunting can be... I've got the engine on a stand while I put the LSD in the tranny, with just about every bolt-on available in boxes waiting for their home. 265hp at the crank at 8600rpm should be just about deadly in a 1,350lb package. :)
 
Originally Posted By: BeerLube
Got a kit version of an Ariel Atom I should be starting sometime in the next year, with this powertrain going in. You got me fired up about my project all over again! What a drag house-hunting can be... I've got the engine on a stand while I put the LSD in the tranny, with just about every bolt-on available in boxes waiting for their home. 265hp at the crank at 8600rpm should be just about deadly in a 1,350lb package. :)


No cat and more agressive cams could get you another 20+ HP and since you're driving a race car I'd assume you'd want to run something more stout than 91 octane so you could tune for 100/105 and be pushing 300 HP without much trouble. You're going to have a great time with that Atom!!!
 
Originally Posted By: OrdnanceMarine

No cat and more agressive cams could get you another 20+ HP and since you're driving a race car I'd assume you'd want to run something more stout than 91 octane so you could tune for 100/105 and be pushing 300 HP without much trouble. You're going to have a great time with that Atom!!!


Thanks... actually still haven't closed on the house yet, so my motivation just about everywhere else has been nil (the gut my laptop is resting on sure reminds me of this). The kit will be streeted most of the time, in fair weather of course, so I've got a spun stainless high-flow cat and shorty header to fab the exhaust, and will tune for the 93 octane we get in TX. I also have the ITR cams, re-built OBX LSD, ps/ac delete, lightweight crank pulley, and just about every other "reliable" bolt-on I'm forgeting besides 4-1 headers (no room). The goal is simply "to produce the most street-legal fun I can have on 4-wheels"...

In any case, very nice to see these excellent UOA's, on a bolted, tuned, and hard-driven example no less! Can't wait to see the next one. Plus I already have a huge stash of PP 5W-30 for my Mazdaspeed 3, so I'm all set for the Honda.
 
I read the first post and jumped right to a response. I have this a '07 Si and I know the car does not take more than 4.5 qts with filter.
 
Last edited:
iluvhonda - As an 06 SI owner who has had this discussion many times....

There are alot of SI owners who, after draining the pan and replacing the filter, require a full 5.5 quarts of oil to top off the dipstick.

I am one of those owners, and I just topped off my car today after an oil change 3 days ago where I added 5 quarts....then waited a few days for it to gain color so I could accurately gauge the dipstick after the car sat for 12 hours straight.

And, yep, once again, like every oil change before, it required another half quart to top off.
 
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