PP 0w20 2,000 miles 2011 Subaru Forester 2.5X

[garthg]

This is second UOA I've done for this car. The engine is Subaru's new fully redesigned 2.5 L engine (FB25) with a timing chain.

Oil: Pennzoil Platinum 0w20
Oil Filter: Factory filter, with magnet on filter
Air Filter: Factory filter
Vehicle: 2011 Subaru Forester 2.5X Touring Package, 2,000 miles (3,200 km) on oil, 3,400 miles (5,500 km) on car. Second oil change

The driving was a mix of city and highway driving over a very rainy spring season in Ottawa.

Analysis was done by Toromont Caterpillar ($CDN 20 including tax and shipping).

The numbers in brackets () are for the first UOA I did, of the factory fill, at 1,400 miles (2,300 km).


Antifreeze negligible
Fuel Dilution negligible
Water negligible

The comment from Toromont was "Wear levels are consistent with normal break-in wear"

Code:




Iron 10 (20)

Chrome 1 (0)

Moly 154 (974)

Aluminum 3 (5)

Copper 16 (83)

Lead 0 (0)

Tin 1 (1)

Titanium 0 (0)

Nickel 0 (0)

Silver 0 (0)

Silicon 67 (229)

Sodium 4 (9)

Potassium 2 (5)

Zinc 758 (918)

Magnesium 10 (13)

Phosphorus728 (939)

Barium 1 (4)



Soot UFM # 0 (0)

Sulfur UFM# 20 (22)

Oxidation UFM #15 (18)

Nitrates UFM # 8 (9)



Viscosity cSt at 100C 7.35 (7.15)

TBN 7.0 (5.0)

TAN .90 (1.10)


The break-in recommendation in the Canadian owner's manual indicates a break-in period of 1,600 km which was why I did the first oil change at 2,300 km. The first oil change (Canadian Schedule) is supposed to be at 8,000 km. In the US, the first oil change is specified at 5,000 km (3,000 miles) which was the reason I did this oil change. Obviously, based on the oil analysis the change was premature but I did it out of interest. I will continue to use Pennzoil Platinum and will do an oil analysis after 8,000km of oil use (the Canadian recommended change interval).

Comments?

 

[ChiTDI]

That break in oil had a lot of molybdenum in it!
What was their suggested interval for first change?

 

[Eddie]

Yes indeed. The FF was changed way too early.

 

[ChiTDI]

Better worded question would be :
Do they want you to use oil with that high moly content consistently? Otherwise, an early ff change eliminates a very desireable additive for break-in.

 

[FL_Rob]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Better worded question would be :
Do they want you to use oil with that high moly content consistently? Otherwise, an early ff change eliminates a very desireable additive for break-in.

+1 ON THAT! I'd sure like to know what FF that is.

 

[Gene K]

I suspect a lot of the "Moly" is the liquid assembly lube most factories use.

 

[garthg]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
That break in oil had a lot of molybdenum in it!
What was their suggested interval for first change?


In Canada, the first (and all subsequent) oil changes are 8,000 km (5,000 miles). In the US, the first oil change is at about 3,000 miles (5,000 km) and subsequent oil changes (I'm going from memory) are about 7,000 miles.

 

[bodeh6]

The FF is recommend to be changed @ 3000 miles, next oil change @ 7500 miles, then every 7500 miles (so next one would be 15000 miles)

 

[ChiTDI]

Originally Posted By: garthg
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
That break in oil had a lot of molybdenum in it!
What was their suggested interval for first change?


In Canada, the first (and all subsequent) oil changes are 8,000 km (5,000 miles). In the US, the first oil change is at about 3,000 miles (5,000 km) and subsequent oil changes (I'm going from memory) are about 7,000 miles.


And yet the factory fill is the same?

 

[bluesubie]

ChiTDI - See Gene's comment on assembly lube. The cars do come from the same factory in Japan and Subaru of America has said that they do not use a break-in oil. It has also been posted in their on-line TechTips web site for dealers that break-in oil isn't used.

-Dennis

 

[ChiTDI]

Got it Dennis, thanks.

 

[ltslimjim]

^Still, it makes you wonder what oil was used with the high moly content and why if 'no' break-in period oil is used. Sure, the oil that came as the FF could be a 'non' break-in oil, but maybe it's chosen for a reason related to moly? You gotta figure anyway. Just my .02$!

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^Still, it makes you wonder what oil was used with the high moly content and why if 'no' break-in period oil is used. Sure, the oil that came as the FF could be a 'non' break-in oil, but maybe it's chosen for a reason related to moly? You gotta figure anyway. Just my .02$!

Assembly lubes have high moly so that will show up in a factory fill uoa (and the next two or three uoa's). Subaru uses moly coated pistons as well so this could also be wear-in metals.

Back when Subaru used conventional oil as FF, they used a Japanese brand or even any conventional that was on hand. . SubLGT posted the info from Subaru TechTips here some time ago, but I'm too lazy to search for his post.

edit: ok, decided to look for it. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/factory-fill-09-subaru-legacy-2-5i-se-2377-miles.99312/
Even though Fuji Heavy may be using different oil now, the FF has always shown high levels of moly.

-Dennis

 

[ChiTDI]

Good info from you bluesubie.
Kudos to you and Fuji Heavy Ind. - "moly coated pistons" Wow.
Don't see that everyday.

 

[bluesubie]

I just found out that the Idemitsu Subaru factory fill has high levels moly, but the service fill does not. Hope to post more details later.

In the meantime, I did a google search on OEMs using moly coated pistons and found this old BITOG thread with comments from Molakule:

The moly coating is most generally on the piston skirts, and is a solid film coating used to reduce wear and friction on the skirts...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/moly-and-moly-coated-pistons.4956/

-Dennis

 

[wag123]

As Toyota holds a controlling interest in Subaru, they are now part of the "Toyota Group" of companies. You can see a strong Toyota family resemblance in the newer models. I suspect that the oil they are using comes from the same sources that Toyota uses (economy of scale). Toyota 0w-20 has a boatload of moly in it and the numbers on the first UOA are consistent with the numbers I have seen on Toyota 0w-20 UOAs.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Idemitsu does not make toyota service fill oil. The Fuji spec Idemitsu FF oil IS fortified, according to the U.S. ILA rep I corresponded with this week. The subaru GF-5 Starbust service fill oil will evidence low moly. I was doing this very homework as I indeed wish to have some moly in the sump for my first service fill. (See my sig line VVV

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: wag123
As Toyota holds a controlling interest in Subaru, they are now part of the "Toyota Group" of companies. ....
I read in the past Toyoda bought some of GMs dumped shares and then Toyota bough some more a coupe years ago - but at that time they were under 20%. Pardon me, I have to go do some searches ....

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Yes indeed. The FF was changed way too early.
why?

 

[Steve S]

Increase the oil change intervals.