portable generator or standby

[FiremarshalRob]

With hurricane season here, and having gone through 2 tough, hot power outages with Hurricane Katrina and Gustav, I am in the market for a generator.

I've been looking at both portable and home standby.

I've read nothing but bad reviews about Generac. I don't own one, but obviously the generator experts who deal with them all the time refer to the as "genecrap", or "genejunk", etc.

I've been pricing Honda's, Coleman, Yamaha's, and some standby home generators such as the 10Kw GE.

I'm not really sure.

Any suggestions on portables, standby?

 

[Jeff3126]

Well, I have a Honda 6500 watt genny and used it during a couple of hurricanes. It runs very well. Don't know much about colemans, or yamahas.

Several neighbors have whole-house standby units that run on propane. Of course, their machines cost several thousand more than my machine did ($3k).

Maybe take a look at the Harbor Freight gennys?

 

[Scooter_man]

While I don't live anywhere near the coast and don't have to worry about hurricanes, the local power grid here in my area isn't the most reliable - especially during severe weather.

I've got a small Honda (3800 watt) and it's fantastic. In reality, anytime you can stick with a good/reliable name like Honda, Yamaha, etc. it's hard to go wrong. I'm not a supporter of the recent influx of Chondas.

Plus, if you ever need parts for it - Honda and Yamaha are only as far away as your nearest dealership. Can't say that for the Chondas.


Rob

 

[MrMeeks]

Calculate how many watts of power you will need to operate whatever you want to operate.Be certain the genset you get has wheels.They are difficult to move without wheels. Sometimes wheels are an option and sold as a 'kit' for fifty dollars.Shop around to get a generator that includes the wheels standard.THere is much more i could write about gensets if anyone needs it.ok

 

[Solo2driver]

Anyone else have the Harbor Freight generators? I am looking at the cheap-o 1000W version just to have handy and that I can take to the races, maybe a larger version if this hurricane season gets crazy. I like the Honda ones, but don't have the spare $$. My wife just says "Don't bother, we'll go to Austin if there is another hurricane" but I prefer to be prepared! Thoughts?

 

[tig1]

I have a friend that is a certified Generac tech. I have helped him at times on some of the more time consuming repairs. The stand by generators are maintainance heavy and are expensive to repair. Also my daughter has one of the 15KW unites that has worked well, but recently had to be fixed for an exercise program failure. All in all, the standby generators are nice if you have money to keep them up.

 

[Scooter_man]

Solo2driver - I had until recently (sold it) a 1200-watt 2-stroke generator. Forgot the brand name, but a cheapo.

Honestly, it didn't do bad. Although a typical cold-natured 2-stroke, it always (eventually) fired up and ran fine. Long-term I don't know what it's life expectancy is, but it no trouble running 6-8 hours powering a smaller TV, 2 auarium pumps/heaters, and a few lights (CFL's).

I upgraded because I needed more power coming in and didn't want to take a chance with one of the Chondas. A little internet research (as well as on this board) will give mixed reviews of the Harbor Freight generators. Some have had great luck with them, other - well, not so lucky.

Don't let me discourage you from getting one of them, just take into consideration that there is a reason they (Chondas) are cheaper than a Honda or Yamaha.

At the same time, this doesn't necessarliy mean that they won't perform and do fine for you.


Rob

 

[JimPghPA]

If you go with a portable gas fueled generator you should know there are two basic types. Inverter, and non-inverter.

The inverter type use much less fuel, but cost much more. They are fairly quiet, and usually weigh more (epically once you get above 2000 watts). Inverter models will not put out more than they are rated for, even for a brief time, so be sure you have enough wattage for start up surge. Inverter models produce cleaner AC power. This is good for electronic equipment like TV's DVD players, and computers. They are easier on the oil because they vary the RPM's with load and run cooler in general. Some are rated for 100 hour OCIs. Inverter models like fresh gas. Some will not start at all on gas that is a month old.

The non-inverter models run a 3600 RPM regardless of the load on them. They drink much more gas, or what ever fuel you are using.
The non-inverter models are harder on oil, you should change it every 25 to 50 hours depending on the quality of the oil, how hard you load it, and ambient temperatures. The oil these units use tends to shear and loose viscosity. Many of the new SM oils can not provide good enough lubrication for these air cooled engines. They are also very noisy (the common phrase is they "can wake the dead"). So you want to have it at least 50 feet from anyone's house, and preferably 100 feet. And be sure EVERYONE uses ear protection around them EVERY TIME. They will make your ears ring for days. This is hearing damage levels. They are lower in cost, and can handle a start up surge better. Some TV's, some computers, and even some furnaces will not work with some non-inverter generators. In general they will work, but some combinations are no good. Non-inverter engines will run on older gas that inverter units will not run on.

For long reliable life think shade(put a large thick tarp up if you have to), plenty of fresh air flow (leave tarp open on all sides), and (a box fan blowing on the engine and electrical section is a good idea). Most units have a fan on the engine and the hot air leaving the engine then flows over the electrical section. If you blow a box fan on them be sure it does not fight the air flow from the engine. Put it at about a 45 degree angle to aid the same direction but add fresh air to the electrical section.

Stay with a good oil. In hot southern summers with a non-inverter M1 15W-50 is a good oil, some go as long as 50 hour OCI with that oil.

For the winter I would go with GC. Some use Rotella.

Clean or change the air filter every 100 hours. If the one that came with it is not cleanable you might want to get a K&N and clean it every 100 hours. If the air filter gets too dirty the mixture will get too rich (not enough air). Rich mixtures wash the small amount of oil film off of the cylinder wall. This rips up the piston and cylinder and shortens the engine life. Also replace the spark plug every 100 hours. The electrical part of most of them relies on residual magnetism in the armature to get initial power flowing. If this residual magnetism is lost (if the generator sits un-used too long) you may have to initialize the unit with a small battery like a 6 volt lantern, or a 12 volt battery, sometimes a 1 1/2 D cell is enough. To do this you remove a cover and apply the battery across a connection for the brushes for a brief time.

Then there is the worry about fuel going bad during storage, so use Sta-Bil in the fuel. You can double dose with Sta-Bil for up to 2 years of storage. For best results, you MUST put the Sta-Bil in the fuel when it is fresh, not weaks after you bought it. And always run the carb dry at the end of each use so no fuel is left in it to evaporate and leave behind a gummy mess to clog up the carb. Also the smaller the engine the smaller the little breather passages and other passages in the carb, and the quicker they will get clogged if you do not run it on a regular basis. Amsoil makes a foaming carb cleaner. It is a good idea to use this just before you are going to change the spark-plug as carb cleaners can foul spark-plugs.

Some people get a large generator like a low cost non-inverter for when they have to run large loads like whole house AC or many AC's. And a small quiet inverter that sips gas for the rest of the time for fridge and a few other items. The small Yamaha alows you to shut off the gas and run the carb dry. The small Honda shuts off the gas the same time you shut off the engine so you can not run the carb dry with it. Generac recently came out with a small inverter and it is the lowest in cost.

As for generac being a bad brand, I would think that 99.99 percent of that is people who place too much load on them, or do not change the oil, or clean the air filter.

Generac actually makes a very good electrical section for there non-inverter generators. It is an excellent design that produces some of the cleanest AC power of all the non-inverter generators made. Often if someone has an electronic item that other non-inverter generators will not run, a Generac non-inverter will run it.

In general any generator you get should never be expected to produce 100 percent of rated load for long times in hot weather. I would say 50 percent of full load (not peak) for long time continuous use is realistic in hot weather. Many of these generators have plastic as part of the housing for the electrical section. This often includes the bearings. If the plastic gets too hot, it will warp, after that you can throw it away. This is why box fan and 50 percent of rated for long times in hot weather is a good idea.

I can't tell you too much about the large automatic units except that you might have to get a new larger gas line to your house for it, and there will be considerable cost to add the electrical connections.

 

[JimPghPA]

The following are some post I made on another web site some time ago. They might be of help.


Just a note to those who have electric water heating. You probably have two heating elements in your water heater. If so you could disconect the upper one and run only the lower one to cut the power demand in half. Of course the heating time will double. If you are into planing ahead you could have this upper element on a heavy duty (high curent rated) switch.
Another good idea is to reduce the number of light bulbs that are screwed in all the way in light fictures that have multiple lights when using a generator.

Re: Electric water heaters. An additional thought regarding reducing the load placed on your generator when powering an electric water heater.
As mentioned before if you disconect the uper element, then the power draw would be half normal, and the heating time would be TWICE NORMAL.

If you have two heating elements (almost all water heaters have two heating elements) and you rewire them in series (perferably by means of a high power rated (double pole doubel throw) switch that is hiden so no one (like a kid) throws it and puts the water heater back into full wattage) you can reduce the load to one fourth that of normal. The heating time will be FOUR TIMES NORMAL.

Also note that if your water heater is a 240 volt unit and you run it on 120 volts, the power the heater would draw would be only 1/4 of normal. The heating time would be FOUR TIMES NORMAL. This is because at 120 volts the curent draw would be half that of normal. And since the voltage is only 120 (half that of normal) and the wattage is AMPS x VOLTS the wattage draw would be 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4. This is if you ran a 240 volt water heater on 120 volts and left both heating elements conected.

If you ran a 240 volt water heater on 120 volts and you disconected the uper element then the power draw would be 1/8 that of normal. The heating time would also be EIGHT TIMES NORMAL.

If you were to put two 240 volt elements in series and run them on 120 volts the power draw would be 1/16 normal. The heating time would be 16 TIMES NORMAL. This is geting a bit long and might not be enough when adding on heat loss to ambient. However if you realy want to cut back on power draw and you can get by with very long hot water tank recovery time (not too many people using the hot water) this might be worth a try.

Reducing the power draw might be raealy valuable since it would allow you to use a small generator that gets many hours from one gallon of gas such as the HONDA eu2000i .

I have gas hot water. If I had electric I would try the reduced wiring and after determining which worked best for my requirement I would install a hiden switch with a long life low power draw indication light in plain view that would remind me to turn it back to full power when once again runing from the grid. You would require a three pole double throw high power switch (hard to find) so you would have a pole for the light.

Regarding powering a hot water heater with a generator.
BE SURE that your GENERATOR, and your ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, and your WATER PIPE SYSTEM are PROPERLY GROUNDED.

Most electric water heaters have too much electrical leakage to allow the use of a ground-fault circuit breaker.

If there is any question either don't do it or use a isolation transformer. Use grounds for the generator, for the isolation transformer, for the electric, and for the water system.

Hear is a good idea. Use the stock paper air filter for normal runing of the generator every 3 or 4 months and for the first 1/2 hour or so for real power outages. Have a K&N air filter with the cleaning and oil kit for the filter for using the K&N filter for real outages. Because the K&N can be cleaned and used over and over you can forget about having enough filters to change to a new filter every 100 hours of use.
The pater filter is best for use every few months because the K&N oil will dry up.

The instructions in the K&N filter clean and oil kit says to wait 20 minutes after you oil the filter.

You could start using the generator with the stock paper filter during an outage and then oil the K&N and install it after it sits for at least 20 minutes.

Because the filter for a generator is small, the clean and oil kit will last for many applications.

Another good idea is to store the clean and oil kit someplace where you will shake it up once in a while, like every time you run your generator every few months.

Here is some important information. When you shut off your generator for storage be sure to run it completly out of gas. This is so the carb will not have its pasages gumed up by gas that would concentrates as it evaporates during storage time.
If you are going to use an after-run oil (a realy good idea) remove the spark plug and spray after-run oil into cylinder. Pull the start rope a few times and replace the spark plug. Note after run oil will slightly foul the spark plug. After three or four runs bruning off this after run oil the engine will still start but may require a fue more pulls. This is because the plug is becoming more fouled and should be replaced.

For single cylinder motors, after you burn off the gas, and add after-run oil, and have pulled the rope a few times, and replaced the plug, lightly pull the start rope until the resistance of the cylinder begining a compression stroke is noticed. If you do this you insure that both the intake and exhaust valve are closed. This is important because when stored in the closed position the valve spring is not compressed to the maximum like it is when the valve is open. When stored with the valve closed the spring will not crack or loose the ability to move the valve to the closed position. If you store a single cylinder engine with a valve open and its spring compressed there is a chance tht the valve spring will be damaged.

 

[JimPghPA]

Be aware that 240 volts consit of two 120 volt circuits. If you run two 120 volt large power draws, like two window AC's be sure one is on one of these sides, and the other is on the other side. NEVER both on one side.

If you do not understand this, get an electrician to explain it to you.

 

[JimPghPA]

The advantage of the 2 stroke engines is you just add oil to the gas. You never have to change the oil. Changing oil is a real pain when it is -10 degree Fahrenheit or colder.

For hot weather areas 4 cycle is a better choice.

 

[Schmoe]

Wow. That's good information Jim....I got "forced" into buying a 6500W generator from the back of 18 wheeler back in January when we got nailed with the ice storm from he!!. Didn't want to do it, but with the wife and the 6 year old getting cold, interstate shut down that runs through my town and all the hotels filled up, I had no choice. It was an American Camper...I know, please don't tell me all the bad news you've heard about them, but I had no choice. Actually, it wasn't a really bad deal. Turns out it was a Honda clone with OHV for 750 bucks. I was told that when Honda lost their patent, everybody started copying them. Has a 8 gallon fuel tank, 120V, 240V hook ups and 30 amps along with a DC charging port and electric start with fuel shut off. Didn't get the battery though. Anyway, it ran great. It was loud, but purred for 4 days straight. Funny thing about pulling the start rope when finished, until you feel no resistance. For some reason, I've always done this with my mowers. Don't know why I did it, I just did. Makes perfect sense now. But, after some observations and trail and error, I'll add this:
Make sure you have somewhere to get gas and have a good supply of gas containers when you do find gas. If your out of power, your local gas company is probably out too. Say what you want about Walmart, but during the ice storm, somehow, even when the interstates were closed, they got these huge Cat. diesel generators to the gas stations and were pumping fuel. For summer time outages if you got central AC, go out and buy a 5-10K BTU window AC unit. Walmart has Gibson 5K units for about 99 bucks. Put it in one room, like the bedroom, to keep cool. You can get buy in the rest of the house for a while and always retreat to the cool room if you need too. That way, you got plenty of power for your refrigerators, freezers, microwave and cell phone charges and DVD player. Get a portable DVD player with a built in rechargable battery, especially if you got kids. For hot water, fill your bath tub up. If the house get's that warm, it won't take that long to get the water to room temperature, that way, you can still get clean but just have to take a bath instead of a shower. Have the kids bath together but put swim trunks on them. They'll think it's a pool party. Now if your married....take a bath together.......you know what I mean!!!!!

 

[Truckedup]

Quote:
Anyone else have the Harbor Freight generators?
I have a H/F 1000 watt 4 stroke model.It works ok for small jobs and it's pretty quiet and only about 40 pounds.I hate to buy Chinese [censored] but I'm an electrical contractor and needed a light weight generator to toss in the truck for electrical shut down jobs.

 

[JimPghPA]

To Schmoe, regarding your post of "Funny thing about pulling the start rope when finished, until you feel no resistance. For some reason, I've always done this with my mowers. Don't know why I did it, I just did. Makes perfect sense now. But, after some observations and trail and error, I'll add this:"


Thanks for the reply.

BTW, you should pull the roap until the resistance of the piston fighting to compress the air in the cylinder is felt. Then both the intake and exhaust valve are both closed.

As for having plenty of gas cans, I could not agree with you more. Some would think that the 21 two and a half gallon gas cans I keep full of gas with Sta-Bil in the winter are way too much. But last winter when Pittsburgh got hit with a MAJOR SNOW STORM, and many roads were not usable for days, there were many in my area who would of liked to have had my set up.

 

[rjundi]

I am in the market also for a 5000-8000 watt generator. Are Honda's significantly quieter than other models? Also besides Chinese models any know of propane powered units?

I get two - three days per year of power outages. They make my wife absolutely crazy.

 

[tonycarguy]

Instead of those 1000w el cheapo generators, wouldn't it be better to buy a quality 750-1000w inverter then use your car as the generator? For starters, it'd be much quieter! I imagine it would generate cleaner power for electronics, too. How much electricity can a midsized car generate at idle?

 

[eljefino]

Most alts do around 40 amps at idle, subtract 10 for the ignition, fuel pump and you have 30. 30x13.8= ~400 watts. Of course for a while you can draw out more than the alt makes and run off the battery.

If you have something cycling like a fridge this would work out fine.

If you idle until the electric fans kick in, they will use most of the remaining surplus.

An inverter can also run a TV and compact flourescent all evening off your car battery without the car even running. It has its place in emergency preparedness. Also you could lock the inverter/car where you have to have the generator outside running, calling attention to itself, and prospective thieves.

 

[Schmoe]

Yeah, I can see that as a problem. But it's as always....location, location, location. If your in a good neighborhood, I'd think you'd be OK with a generator running outside. Chances are, everybody else will have one running too. I'm just not fond of inverters. Have I ever used one? No. Just something about them that just doesn't sit well with me. It's almost too easy. The problem with running an inverter off of your car is that your going to have to run extension cords regardless. Your also going to have to open the garage if your car is parked in one because of the exhaust. There would also be a lot of heat generated in an enclosed garage also, but for winter time, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[eljefino]

^ You could park outside, lock the car, and crack the window to run the cord through. Or use alligator clips on the battery and snake the cord down under the car.

A prius is great b/c you can leave the key on and it will start and stop itself to charge the 12v system.

 

[JimPghPA]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
I am in the market also for a 5000-8000 watt generator. Are Honda's significantly quieter than other models? Also besides Chinese models any know of propane powered units?

I get two - three days per year of power outages. They make my wife absolutely crazy.


The Honda Inverter large units are quiet, drink less gas, and cost WAY more.