Poll: what'd you use in your WS-spec'd AT?

[mdboulier]

This poll had been posted in a less robust manner previously. Those answers are gone, so please vote again. Poll open for 90 days.

If you do not meet criteria below, but are interested in results, you can see results without voting.

Please answer the poll stating your preferred fluid for your ATF-WS-spec'c automatic transmission IF:
* You own a WS-spec'd automatic transmission (for sake of discussion, let's exclude hybrid CVTs please, only autos)
* You have done an ATF change on said transmission (dog in the fight only please)
* (Select up to 3 fluids that you have used successfully and would use again. If you've used a fluid previously, but will not use it going forward, don't select it.)

I've ready many of the interesting BITOG/Toyota threads on WS fluid. I've seen arguments for and against WS. I wanted to construct a poll so members could interpret the often impassioned discussion with some survey data. Mainly, I want to see these results to guide my own maintenance decisions going forward (recently acquired '15 Sienna). Forum discussion can highlight the stated preferences of an outspoken minority and make it seem like a majority. I want to see the revealed preferences of a larger population. Some may not speak up in the comment section, but will answer a poll question. This poll won't be perfect as we can't really enforce the proposed criteria above, but hopefully the honor system will prevail and this information will provide some relevant context to supplement the discussion.

I've selected these choices after asking in a previous thread and browsing the "post your latest" thread. These are the most popular answers where the fluid manufacturer lists WS as an application.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I don't know exactly which WS fluid my indy mechanic used on my 4Runner a couple months ago, but I guarantee they used something proper. If I had to bet, I'd say Toyota, Aisin, or Idemitsu. But I've used Valvoline in an old Echo and it worked just fine, didn't ruin anything.

 

[Jake_J]

I've used WS in an Yaris and Maxlife in a Vibe/Matrix, they both work great. Most Toyota automatics aren't very picky about the ATF that you run, the auto in my Yaris was originally designed for T-IV ATF (most models switched to WS in 04) which is essentially Toyota's version of Dexron III. So I'd be quite confident that any of the ATF's in the poll would work great in a WS spec'd Toyota automatic.

 

[BigD1]

Toyota WS in a 2006 Lexus IS350 round about 130,000 miles. Was done at Hendrick Lexus Charlotte, NC. Has 175,000 miles now.

 

[Astro14]

My Tundra specifies WS. I used the AMSOIL Signature Series when I changed it at 25,000 miles. The WS that came out actually looked pretty good.

That transmission, by the way, is a pain on which to change to fluid. You’ve got to fill through a port in the side of the case. You have to block open the cooler thermostat to enable a cooler line exchange. To set level you need a precise fluid temp (Techstream).

 

[Chris Meutsch]

My Tundra specifies WS. I used the AMSOIL Signature Series when I changed it at 25,000 miles. The WS that came out actually looked pretty good.

That transmission, by the way, is a pain on which to change to fluid. You’ve got to fill through a port in the side of the case. You have to block open the cooler thermostat to enable a cooler line exchange. To set level you need a precise fluid temp (Techstream).

After MUCH research..........I'm going to start doing drain and fills (I had the "filter" and pan dropped two months ago). It seems like you should use a graduated bucket that shows exact levels and is clear. You drain out the old, and put a line on that exact level. Then, put that fluid into another container. Then (after doing the proper BITOG thing and cleaning the container because we're all weird), fill back the container to the exact level you marked, and pump it back into the fill hole.

 

[1000MPH]

I went with WS ATF when I did 3 drain and fills last weekend at 111,000 miles on my 2010 4Runner. Ended up getting the fluid at $7.78/qt from a dealer 2 hours away on my way back from a trip. Local dealer has as much as 100% markup from retail. The old factory fill looked dark but felt and smellEd good. I added back exact same amount as came out every fill but still needed almost a qt more when setting the level using TechStream. No noticeable changes in performance after the change.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I went with WS ATF when I did 3 drain and fills last weekend at 111,000 miles on my 2010 4Runner. Ended up getting the fluid at $7.78/qt from a dealer 2 hours away on my way back from a trip. Local dealer has as much as 100% markup from retail. The old factory fill looked dark but felt and smellEd good. I added back exact same amount as came out every fill but still needed almost a qt more when setting the level using TechStream. No noticeable changes in performance after the change.

What happens if us 4Runner 5th-gen owners only do a drain and fill and not use TechStream? Would you say that it's "good" to add at least another 1/2 quart just because?

 

[BlakeB]

What happens if us 4Runner 5th-gen owners only do a drain and fill and not use TechStream? Would you say that it's "good" to add at least another 1/2 quart just because?

You can manually enter temp check mode. It’s easy and only takes a few minutes. Alternatively, you can use an Ultragauge or Scangauge. I Have an Ultragauge MX. The pic is from a 2016 4R on a recent road trip.

Transmission filter and oil change in a 5th gen?

I have a week off coming up and have been stockpiling fluids. I plan on doing the entire drivetrain on my 15 4x4. I picked up the ATF at the...

www.4runners.com

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Maxlife for the most part. I used Mag 1 once. Never had a problem with either of them. Castrol Full Synthetic is also a good choice, but it wasn't on sale when I changed the ATF on a car that calls for WS

Peak is likely the same as Mag 1, since it is WPP. Most house brand ATF's are made by WPP, including Pep Boys Pro Line and Walmart brand (some regions). I've used the PB Proline, but not in a WS transmission, but it's ok to check the box for Mag 1 since all the WPP LV ATF's are probably the same

What happens if us 4Runner 5th-gen owners only do a drain and fill and not use TechStream? Would you say that it's "good" to add at least another 1/2 quart just because?

Do it when the car is cold, before starting it up, or run it just long enough to drive it on ramps then shut it off**. Measure how much you drain out, and refill with the same amount

** If you drive it on ramps, you can always wait a few minutes after shutting it off before draining. You probably don't even have to do that, but it wouldn't hurt to wait.

 

[mdboulier]

What happens if us 4Runner 5th-gen owners only do a drain and fill and not use TechStream? Would you say that it's "good" to add at least another 1/2 quart just because?

What about taking a weight of empty pan vs full pan. Combine that with estimate drain fill volumes. I think measuring tends to undershoot due to transfer losses.

 

[1000MPH]

Yeah, I would try a scangauge or similar if you don’t want to spring for a copy of TechStream or try to get it in selftest with a jumper. FWIW, I tried several times to get TechStream in test mode and failed. I ended up just using the temp reading function in TechStream.

 

[Astro14]

I think I spent $25 on a Techstream cable. The software was free. I used an old Win XP laptop. With a modern car, the Techstream (or STAR for Mercedes, VIDA for Volvo) is a necessity of you want to do more than just change oil.

The hardest part of dealing with my Tundra’s transmission is filling it. For that, I bought a motive power filler. A 2.5 gallon pressure vessel with a fill hose.

Setting the level is pretty easy: with trans at proper temp, and truck level, open level check plug. If fluid pours out and stops, you’re done. If no fluid, or it just dribbled, add 1/2 quart and try again.

Since I have to fill it when I do a flush, and I have to fill it if I were to do a drain and fill, I’ll just do the flush every time. It’s not that much more work.

 

[meep]

Just did it today. Amsoil in 2014 Lexus gs350 At 72222 miles. Swapped in 8 qts. by basically doing it twice. Transmission was overfilled when I started. I’m assuming it was factory fill... WS came out smelling a lot like worn Honda fluid... a dull musky smell, watery dark chocolate brown with some clouding as it pooled.

the adaptives haven’t figured it all yet but the difference is significant. Shifts are snappy and well defined but also smooth and subtle. It was a quiet car before, but the noise is somehow notably reduced. It was missing some shifts between gears but continued to improve as it shifted more. I’m surprised there was so much of a difference. I don’t know the history of the car, but I suspect it was driven hard. I’ve not quite seen an atf change at mileage like this make such a difference.

m

 

[slacktide_bitog]

What about taking a weight of empty pan vs full pan. Combine that with estimate drain fill volumes. I think measuring tends to undershoot due to transfer losses.

If you place the bucket right underneath the drain plug, you shouldn't lose a meaningful amount, no more than an ounce or two at the very most, if that. Maybe a tiny amount spills on you as you undo the drain plug, but even that is minimal. You can get a bucket wide enough to cover any ATF that would come out from the drain plug.

Home Depot and other hardware stores sell measuring buckets of a good size.

A Sienna or a 4Runner should be easy to get high enough that the bucket will fit right under the drain plug.

 

[blupupher]

As I posted in the other thread, for my Scion xB (Toyota U241E transmission, WS spec), I use Maxlife ATF for a drain and fill @ 30,000 miles, and used Havoline Dex VI for a pan drop/filter change @ 50,000 miles.

Will probably use Maxlife @ my 75,000 mile drain and fill unless I find some Dex VI for cheaper.

 

[doublebase]

Recently done three drain and fills on my 2016 Avalon with WS. Fluid was real dark at 50,000 miles...honestly doesn’t look that much better now, Going to do a pan drop and filter replacement tomorrow. Temp check after.

I only bought 4 quarts of WS this time...I have a ton of DexlV laying around the garage...wonder if I can throw a half quart of that in there if I need to?

 

[doublebase]

As I posted in the other thread, for my Scion xB (Toyota U241E transmission, WS spec), I use Maxlife ATF for a drain and fill @ 30,000 miles, and used Havoline Dex VI for a pan drop/filter change @ 50,000 miles.

Will probably use Maxlife @ my 75,000 mile drain and fill unless I find some Dex VI for cheaper.

Yeah, and how did the DEX Vl work out for you? I’m doing a pan drop on my Avalon tomorrow and I may not have enough WS to put into the thing...was thinking about using some leftover DEX Vl I have laying around.

 

[blupupher]

When I did the first drain and fill with Maxlife, I noticed the shifting was a little "crisper" than before (not bad at all, I felt it improved it). No change in the shifting using the Dex VI.

 

[Jonas]

I did three drain/fills with Aisin 0WS shortly after I bought my 09 Vibe. I don't know what fluid was in there before, but it was smoky gray/purple when I drained it. I recently discovered the Aisin fluid is more viscous than Toyota WS (and others) at 7.33cst @100C I believe. That makes sense, because the transmission seems to feel more "cushioned" and I can barely feel it shift only if I'm really paying attention. Seems like a winner to me, but we'll see how she does in the winter.