Please help sort my thoughts about buying a new car.

Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
385
Location
Charlotte, NC
I am one to say, the vast majority of the time, never say never. As far back through the decades as I can remember, I never thought that I would ever buy a brand-new vehicle. I am a blue-collar guy and try to be thrifty with my finances. I just could not ever stomach the depreciation.

My how times have changed.

We bought our 2012 Ford Fusion SE 2.5L in the summer of 2015. 2.5 years old with 24k miles. Paid $15k. You can pay close to that same money today, seven and a half years later for a 2012 Fusion. Crazy times indeed.

So, we are considering selling the Fusion (with 172k miles) to our 18-year-old daughter and buying a brand-new vehicle, given the fact that a new vehicle is about the same price as a three-year-old vehicle with 30k miles on it.

My random thoughts, in no particular order. Please correct any errors in any of my statements. Please share your thoughtful comments.

I plan to own it “forever”.

Our Fusion has been an excellent vehicle. I have known and owned Fords my entire life. My grandparents owned Fords, as did my parents and in-laws. However, I am transitioning away, given quality issues.

My wife would like a small SUV.

I am considering a Corolla Cross (CC) or RAV4, an HR-V, or a Crosstrek.

We are both leaning towards the Subaru. It seems to be a great value for what you get. We would both like to have a manual trans while a person can still get one.

I am torn though and sway towards a Toyota, as they have both direct injection (DI) and port fuel injection (PFI). (Is that true of both the CC and RAV)?

Can a person buy a new vehicle that is strictly PFI? What were some of the last vehicles made that had it? Are Ford and Toyota the only two that have the dual DI and PFI?

I am not considering Kicks or Rouge due to concerns about their CVT.

The CC has a CVT, and the RAV has an 8-speed auto. Does one of those stand out over the other? Why?

I am a little scared of the HRV due to rumblings of Honda quality concerns, and fuel dilution.

Do all of these vehicles with automatic or CVT transmissions have start-stop? Can it be "turned off" on each vehicle? (Another reason to consider the Crosstrek with a manual trans; no start-stop).

Really, my only concern about the Subaru (otherwise I would just pick it) is that it is only DI. If a person uses quality syn oil with 5k OCI, installs a catch can, and runs premium fuel; can you run a DI motor without your intake valves getting carboned up? Or just plan to buy your own walnut shell blasting machine and clean your valves every 30k miles when you change the air filter?

I may think of more thoughts and add later.

Thank you!
~
Edit: I would also consider a Mazda CX-30 or CX-5.
 
Last edited:
This a risky time to be taking on new debt.

roulette wheel.jpg
 
Seems like a decent plan--hand (sell) car to 18 yr old. I'd be careful: back when I was in college I could only afford to have a car on the road about half of each year, and so my car wound up sitting at the parents place. Your "old" car may come home to roost, time to time. Or her plans may change and find she doesn't need a car at all--and TBH, you might want it back, nothing like a beater that you have 100% confidence in, that you owned from new & can vouch for its history.

Anyhow.

HR-V? isn't that the small one that gets bad reviews? If you're going to own long term, get the bigger one with better reviews, unless if you really need something smaller.

I'm not sold that DI is all worked out yet, but these days it probably is, especially when they use both DI and port injection. At the very least, any issues that might pop up are apt to be pushed far down the road (and TBH, not all DI cars had problems, IIRC Mazda didn't at all?). BUT I would not run 10k OCI's on 0W16. It might be FUD but to me, 5k with all of the woes and hand wringing with DI and uber thin oils... I'm not convinced it's settled just yet. That's for at least Toyota and Honda, dunno about Subaru but I'm not sure if Subaru had issues with DI.

Myself, I'm not sure if I like Subaru but that could be a bias showing. Boxer engine is a nice idea but seems to have a complex timing belt and has had issues with head gaskets, and has had issues with CV axles, and mpg, and rust, and ... I'm thinking of older models, who knows, just not at the top of my list for a "forever" car. Something like Camry or Accord is, not saying other vehicles can't rack up the miles, just that they don't come into my mind when I think of long term.

Are you really sure you want a stickshift as you go through life? Sure it's fun. But it seems "many" lose the desire to row the gears as they get older. They might like it on the weekends, but at some point they stop enjoying it on the commute. Also, NC, do you really "need" AWD down there, or is it just something you'd like to have? I'm sure it's nice to have but is it really a requirement? I'm wondering if you could find something that isn't AWD, which tends to be cheaper, since everyone is sold today on having to have AWD.

There's rumors that the wholesale market is dropping on used cars. No idea when that will trickle outwards, and TBH I'm not sure it will have an impact on "good" used cars, only just the ones with high miles and problems (right now if it has 4 tires that hold air and starts and runs, it seems worth $5k, multiple collisions and all). But is there value in waiting a few more months to see if the used market drops a bit?
 
I am a blue-collar guy and try to be thrifty with my finances. I just could not ever stomach the depreciation.
Do NOT buy a new car is the normal and prudent advice, absent odd circumstances. It's a terrible decision financially, except for a few years recently due to extreme situations where used cars could be sold for their new purchase price.

All economic metrics point to the fact that the US and globe are in a recession, and very likely entering a 2 year depression in which case all bets are off. Car prices now or grossly inflated and interest rates about 8% with excellent credit. I would NOT be buying a car today, and no way would I be financing anything.

If it's the only car, work with it for now. If it's an extra car, sell it for maximum now, figure out the best plan for that cash, and buy a used car or whatever in a year when the prices fall 30%. Which they almost certainly will.

I would get list of the best, safest, most reliable cars about 5-10 years old, that seems to be the best price depreciation vs. remaining lifespan. And ample longevity data points. Go with that list, be patient, watch sales, be liquid, and buy when timing is right.

we are considering selling the Fusion (with 172k miles) to our 18-year-old daughter
Big error here. If you want to sell it, fine, try to sell it privately to get more money than I would expect you'd get from your 18 year old. I also think it's a mistake to coddle young adults, but that's a parenting decision. I see it far too often, helicopter parents coddling youngsters who fail to develop life skills. If she has a job, tell her to save her money, research cars, and go find one and you'll help her as needed on the education and test drive, etc. This is an opportunity to help your daughter learn life. Not effectively "gift" her a car probably at a deep discount where she has no effort. Effortless stuff spoils kids rotten. Especially girls who over time see men and a means to get stuff. It's a unique brain washing women go thru from childhood with everyone giving and doing for them.

I think kids need to get a job, develop self reliance, learn stuff, put skin in the game, and do for themselves. Far more valuable if she spends days or weeks learning what to look for, how to car shop, not be taken advantage of, knowns to read tire dates, check transmission fluid, oil, look under for rust, test drive. Far better than dad handing her to keys to the Fusion for $500 bucks or whatever deep discount she gets, which was probably allowance money anyway.

Good luck to you.
 
Last edited:
With all the restrictions you put out that could eliminate pretty much everything.


What I did: Decide on the class of vehicle you want. From your comment that might be a compact or subcompact crossover. Narrow down the brands you will check out. You have already mentioned Toyota and Subaru. Don’t forget Mazda. You can research a lot on the internet plus the specific car forums like the RAV4 forum for example. Finally, hit the dealerships. The car has to not only fit your needs but fit you personally.

Don’t let a lot of this new stuff sway your decision. If you drive sensibly and maintain your vehicles well then you should get a good long life out of your new car.
 
I think selling the Fusion to your daughter is a great idea, it’s a reliable, safe car.

As for what to replace it, I’d avoid Hondas and be leery of the Subarus.

Of what you listed the RAV4 will probably be a good choice with the real automatic. Also agree with others not to forget Mazda.

Why not check out the Maverick Hybrid? I know you mentioned quality concerns on newer Fords but that platform is shared with Escape and Bronco Sport and Ford has been making hybrids with good results for many reasons.
 
Have you considered the Mazda CX50 with the "non-turbo" 2.5l? It's DI, but falls nicely into the segment that you're looking at.
If I had to choose from your list, it would probably be the Rav4.
 
Last edited:
Go look at national financial metrics before even considering a new car. LOL. Absolutely foolish in my view.
Not only will you take the normal 20% depreciation hit, but probably another 30% recessionary hit.

Look at Tesla, slashing prices 20%. Imagine if you bought the same model last year and have to eat the normal depreciation, on top of a dealership price cutting. Ouch.
 
I like near luxury cars. Other than Corvettes, I look for certified previously owned cars coming off of lease. Preferably being sold by the same dealer who originally put it on the road at mile 0.
 
Have you considered the Mazda CX50 with the "non-turbo" 2.5l? It's DI, but falls nicely into the segment that you're looking at.
If I had to choose from your list, it would probably be the Rav4.
Agreed. I’d also go with the Mazda if I was shopping in that segment. I’d probably own a Mazda today if they still built Mazdaspeed models. Since 2007 I have owned 4 DI cars and two of them are still in my garage. I have never had a DI related issue with any of them- and all ran a 7.5k mile(or longer) OCI.
 
Corolla Cross (CC) or RAV4, an HR-V, or a Crosstrek.

First thing join all the respective forums of each of those vehicles and see what the small but vocal subset of owners have faced as owners in each community. Look up TSBs on each model as well as sometime you can at least get a gander of what issues you can live with as an owner and what issues are just a hard pass. Prevention better then cure here.

The CC and HRV are brand new and have little to zero data on their plates, so if you are a long term owner/until the wheels fall off take that into consideration. If you can swing a CC hybrid, I'd take that over the combustion only model.

Finally how much does the manual really mean to you? DI will be a problem regardless of your mod list, its just the way it is.

In the past RAV4 was a solid entrant, but I wouldnt go on history. The new one has some weird issues such as water intrusion and hybrid wiring concerns that RAV4world can better elaborate on.
 
The only one on your list that I personally would not purchase is the Honda. My wife has a CR-V that I seriously dislike driving.
The Subaru should not be problematic. Toyota owns/controls Subaru. A plus for Subaru is that it is manufactured in Japan at a plant that is known for it's high production quality. Personally, I lean more towards Toyota products, you can't beat them. I also recommend that you strongly consider a hybrid.
 
Last edited:
I added an Edit: I would also consider a Mazda CX-30 or CX-5. (Forgot on original post).
I totally agree not to give kids a handout. She is our third child and have not done so with any of them yet. We would sell it to her at a price fair for both parties. She currently goes to school full time and works two part time jobs. She pays her own insurance and gas, as did the others.
Great thoughts for everyone, keep 'em coming.
Thanks!
 
If your daughter gets the Fusion or any other car and is going to university, check the rules there, especially for freshmen. At some unis freshmen weren't allowed to have cars on campus and their vehicle was kept in a holding lot off campus. This was mainly because freshmen were required to stay in an on-campus dorm for that first year to reduce distractions and partying.

That was Virginia Tech 40 years ago, but some unis probably still have similar rules.

This means that your daughter's car could sit a lot, either in a holding lot or at home.

This is a side issue to the OP's question, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

About the Toyota Corolla Cross, it is built in the same new Alabama plant as the Mazda CX-50. The two share a roof panel, but nothing else. The CX-50 comes with AWD. You might want to give it a look, especially since new-car supply is improving.
 
I like near luxury cars. Other than Corvettes, I look for certified previously owned cars coming off of lease. Preferably being sold by the same dealer who originally put it on the road at mile 0.
That’s my strategy as well- it’s how I’ve purchased my last 3 vehicles.
 
Back
Top