PLEASE HELP! Recommendations for 2000 Honda Civic Si

CJH

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489
Location
Pennsylvania
Need some advice from the oil experts. I bought this 2000 Civic Si new and now have 60,000 miles on it. The stock engine is 1.6 liter and produces 160 hp at 7,800 rpm. Redline is 8,000 rpm. Car is driven only on 50 mile trips (each way) to work. This is over twisty, hilly backroads which involve a lot of shifting but almost no stopping. I regulary rev the car to the 7,000 to 8,000 rpm area, and on a daily basis it reaches 80 to 90 mph at least for short intervals. Honda recommends 5W30, but says if temp is over 20 deg. F, is ok to use 10W30. I do want to stick with a 5WX for cold weather here in NW PA. To date, I have always changed the oil with Pennzoil 5W30 at 7,500 miles. The oil might be down a little when I changed it, maybe up to 1/2 quart, more or less. Last oil change, I switched to Mobil 1 5W30. At 4,000 miles, I just added 1/2 quart to top it off. I know this is not a real high consumption rate, but I am considering how to proceed. Note I am willing to deviate from Honda's recommendations on grade if there is a benefit. (Looking at the Civic Si boards, Mobil 1 is commonly reported to have high consumption rates on these high reving engines, but they dont know didly about oil over there.) Should I: 1) Keep using the Mobil 1 5W30, just add as needeed? 2) Go to Mobil 1 0W40? 3) Go to Delvac 1 5W40? 4) Go back to Pennzoil (or another) dino oil? 5) Try something else? I prefer something that is readily available locally...not the Amsoil, Redline or Royal Purple, etc.
 
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College Dorm...
...People usually follow exactly what the manufacturer says ("The filler cap says 5w-30, so I HAVE to use 5w-30"). Most guys that are running Mobil1 are most likely running 5w-30, which based to talk and analysis on this site, does not seem to be as good as an oil as the 10w-30 grade, which could possibly reduce consumption, as well as achieve better wear numbers and higher resistance the breaking down. Like Patman said though, I'm sure (as long as you don't mind the price) Delvac 1 would do you well, allowing you to have a year 'round oil that will protect very, very well.
 

Al

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19,256
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Elizabethtown, Pa
Well you have been around for a while.... So you qualify as an "expert"here. What do you want to do? Stay with the synthetic or go to the dino oil? I think that's your first basic decision. And really if you are goonna change every 3-4K miles (and you probably should with the way you drive) The Pennzoil is probably a good choice. I don't remember you posting a UOA on the 5W-30 Pennzoil, but 7500Miles seems out of the question here. [Frown] So I think if you want to do the 7500 miles then I think the Delvac 1 or Mobil 1 is the way to go. You get some pretty cold nasty weather in NW Pa. - to me the limit on the Mobil1 10W-30 is -17 F. That's as cold as I have used it. If you have a garage and don't get a bunch of days under -10F then the 10W-30 is the way to go. 7500 miles on this oil will be a piece of cake. The Delvac is a bit harder to get ahold of. So an option could be to mix the 10W-30 with some 15W-50. You'd have to be careful in winter though. If you are ready for a change now and you will be changing before the dead of winter. This could be the way to go. If you want to stay with the 5W-30 (and I would use this oil only if conditions in the winter warrant it-you could add 15W-50 as makeup when winter is on its downward trend. Probably didn't help much-just some thoughts. [Off Topic!] BTW I am researching new cars again. I'm interested in the Civic but I really don't want to downgrade performance from the 145 HP of my Sentra SE. I don't like the Si hatchback and I probably need to go with auto for wife. Does that rule out Civic?? [ August 18, 2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: Al ]
 
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Southern California
CJH - I would recommend the german elixir or the Delvac 1 for extended drains. Other than that the Pennzoil is good too. Al - have you given the new Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution a look? 270-some HP! At a price though - $30k+. Good luck! Kiko [Smile]
 

CJH

Thread starter
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489
Location
Pennsylvania
Patman, Jelly, Al, Thanks for helping me get my thoughts together on this. These are my conclusions: 1. I wish I had done a UOA on the 7,500 miles Pennzoil 5W30 dino. 7,500 probably is too long, considering the way I drive. Not going back to 7,500 miles on dino to find out. 2. Want to use a readily available synthetic. I drive the car very hard and at 500 mi./ week, the miles add up in a hurry. 3. I would prefer to follow the manufacturer's recomendations unless there is a good reason not to. Good reasons not to would be poor UOA or excess consumption. 4. Have Mobil 1 5W30 in now at 4,200 miles. Plan to run to 7,500 and do a UOA. If it comes out very good, will just go with the Mobil 1 5W30 @ 7,500 intervals. Next spring, try the Mobil 1 10W30. 5. If the 7,500 mile UOA of Mobil 1 5W30 is marginal or "just ok", will reduce the interval from 7,500 to 5,000 miles. 6. If, as the car ages, consumption reaches a high level, say maybe a quart in 2,500 miles, then I will go to the Delvac 1. Anyone see any flaws in this logic? Open to any and all suggestions.
 
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KC
quote:
Originally posted by Al: [Off Topic!] BTW I am researching new cars again. I'm interested in the Civic but I really don't want to downgrade performance from the 145 HP of my Sentra SE. I don't like the Si hatchback and I probably need to go with auto for wife. Does that rule out Civic??
Newer (01-up) or older (96-00) Civic? ? Motor trend test of the Civic, Sentra, and Corolla: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0109_cc/index.html ---------------------- 7,500 on dino [Eek!] [No no] I would definitely use a Synthetic, but that is a choice you need to make. I have owned a 99 and a 00 Si, along w/ my current VTEC Del Sol. (all B16A motors ) And never had a consumption problem using synthetic. I haven't seen this as a major problem anywhere on any of the Honda boards either. [Confused] Although if I am wrong, point me the way. The only problem I have seen is that some folks using M1 have complained of noisier valve trains, which I have experienced also. If you are going to use a synthetic and run your car the way most of us do w/ these motors, I would suggest a 5000 mile change. If you decide to use dino, I would suggest a 3000 mile change. Types of oil? ? I use Syntec 5W-30 and have had good results. UOA on a 3000 mile change in the UOA section. I will soon have a 5000 mile one also. So I would either suggest M1 or Syntec seeing as you want a readily available oil. Maybe try finding the German 0W-30 if you want. I would then do some personal UOA's. Also research the UOA section here, there are 2 or 3 other B16 reports in there. On Dino I would use Castrol GTX, although Pennzoil seems to have some decent UOA's also. Although I would defiantly not go 7,500 on dino in that motor. One other thing to consider, is that on your first change over to synthetic, you are almost always going to have some consumption. So give it a change or 2 and see if the problem persists. my 0.02 cents JP
 
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KC
Also note I use 5W-30. 10W-30 would be fine too, although this isn't going to help your consumption any in my opinion. The 5W-30 factory suggestion as discussed elsewhere on the forum is mostly going to be for econimical reasons. Plenty of guys that race/warmer climates are using 15W in there B series motors w/ no problems. I just wouldn't suggest 15W for your colder conditions. [Wink]
 

CJH

Thread starter
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489
Location
Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by day1si: Also note I use 5W-30. [Wink]
Day1Si --> Great info! Thanks! Please clarify for me. You are using Syntec 5W30 with 5,000 mile changes and never had a consumption problem. How much does your engine consume in 5,000 miles? If you don't add any, how far is it down on the stick? How much consumption do you consider to be a "problem". In my case, I don't see 1/2 quart in 4,000 miles as a problem. If I changed at 5,000 miles as you suggest, I would not have to add any between changes, although I probably would top it off from time to time. Thanks!
 

CJH

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489
Location
Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: I was just going to say that your consumption of Pennzoil 5w-30 of 1/2qt/7500 miles is as good as it gets! Even 1/2 qt of M1 5w-30 every 4,000 miles is pretty miserly. This consumption really doesn't warrant going up a grade.
Jay, thanks. I drew the same conclusion that there is no reason to go up a grade with this level of consumption. I guess I was just taken aback a bit because the consumption with Mobil 1 was higher than with Pennzoil dino. At this point, I am going to continue with the Mobil 1 5W30 and see what happens over the longer term. I will probably reduce to 5,000 mile change intervals, but I am curious to see what a UOA looks like at 7,500 miles. Maybe I will do do a UOA at 5,000 and 7,500 for contrast this time.
 
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KC
quote:
Originally posted by CJH:
quote:
Originally posted by day1si: Also note I use 5W-30. [Wink]
Day1Si --> Great info! Thanks! Please clarify for me. You are using Syntec 5W30 with 5,000 mile changes and never had a consumption problem. How much does your engine consume in 5,000 miles? If you don't add any, how far is it down on the stick? How much consumption do you consider to be a "problem". In my case, I don't see 1/2 quart in 4,000 miles as a problem. If I changed at 5,000 miles as you suggest, I would not have to add any between changes, although I probably would top it off from time to time. Thanks!

I have been using Syntec w/ 3000 mile changes over the past few years w/ no obvious consumption. Of course I never actually measured exactly what went in and what came out, but the stick always registers the same, and the level in my drain pain has been consistent. Along w/ times I have actually put the oil back in original containers for disposal. Apx 4.2 quarts I plan on trying 5,000 miles on my next oil change and then doing a UOA on the Syntec. I will go from there. If results aren't good w/ the syntec I will probably try M1 again. Although I will probably go 10W-30 in the M1 considering the UOA's one here of M1 5W-30 in general. It just seems the M1 may be a little thin in the B series in my opinion, and from what I have seen. Although I knew nothing of the Syntec GIII hoopla before coming here in the last year. Although my first 3,000 mile UOA looked good. [Smile] After being here for a while though I do agree that any synthetic should at least be able to go good distance in changes. Although I am limiting myself to 5000 mile changes due to my hard driving habits and occasional track days. I could never be comfortable personally going 7,500 on any oil let alone claims of amsoil and 25,000 miles. [Eek!] I would also like to do a 3000 mile on GTX, but don't think I will ever go back to dino. I originally started using synthetic for the extra protection of a better oil, and better additive package, not for long drain intervals. Although like I said, I plan on trying 5000 mile changes. UOA's will tell me what to do. [Smile] Here are some oil reports on either B16A's (our motor) and it's 1.8 counterparts the type R B18C5 and the B18b LS. German Syntec 0W-30 UOA b16 http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000673#000000 M1 5W-30 B18C5 http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000065#000011 M1 5W-30 B18b LS motor http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000278#000000 My 5W-30 B16A3 Syntec http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000695 ----------- Edit: Oil consumption? ? Well that would always depend on the motor itself. How it was broken in, driving habits, maintence, seal leaks, etc..... Although a 1/2 a quart an oil change would seem reasonable if going 5,000 to 7,500. Have you looked for any leaks? ? The most common leak on the "B" series motors is the Cam seals. I would start there? Also any modifications? ? Another thing is that your penzoil probably was getting way to many miles and loosing it's ability to help condition seals, etc... So your oil loss may lie in the fact that you were just going to long on dino. [ August 18, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: day1si ]
 

CJH

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489
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Pennsylvania
Day1Si, I took your advice and looked the engine over from every angle I could get at...top and bottom. I dont know where the camshaft seals are, but every area of the engine I could see is completely dry without any trace of seepage. I am thinking this just comes down to the fact that Mobil 1 5W30 is on the light side of the viscosity range. Using dino, I wuold be down less than 1/4 quart if I changed the oil at 3,000 miles like you do. This would be hardly perceptable on the stick. In any event, I am not going to get concerned about the current consumption levels. How many miles on your Civic Si? Thanks for the links. I skimmed them, but want to review them in detail when I have more time.
 

CJH

Thread starter
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489
Location
Pennsylvania
RE: Oil consumption? ? Well that would always depend on the motor itself. How it was broken in? Broken in by running at varying speeds and avoiding full throttle for first 5,000 miles or so, per the manual. RE: driving habits? Not very good here, I am afraid. I tend to run the engine up to the higher RPMs, often shifting in the 7,000 to 7,500 rpm area, even to the redline if someone challanges me. I downshift a lot going into corners. Usually hit 80 mph+ a couple times every day. RE: maintence? 100% by the Honda owners manual in all details. RE: seal leaks? (The most common leak on the "B" series motors is the Cam seals. I would start there) - I looked the engine over closely with a flashlight. Appears to be punk dry every place you can see. RE: A 1/2 a quart an oil change would seem reasonable if going 5,000 to 7,500 miles. Pretty damm reasonable by any standard, I would say. With the Mobil 1 though, it is more like 1/2 quart per 4,000 miles. Still nothing to get real excited about. RE: Also any modifications? ? Nope RE: Another thing is that your penzoil probably was getting way to many miles and loosing it's ability to help condition seals, etc... So your oil loss may lie in the fact that you were just going to long on dino. Could be, but I doubt it. Honda's recommended interval for normal driving is 7,500 miles.
 

Jay

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Idaho Falls, ID
I was just going to say that your consumption of Pennzoil 5w-30 of 1/2qt/7500 miles is as good as it gets! Even 1/2 qt of M1 5w-30 every 4,000 miles is pretty miserly. This consumption really doesn't warrant going up a grade.
 
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