Plane crash has occurred in Philidelphia; Jan 2025

Could the plane have stalled as it was climbing and not had enough to recover at under 2,000 ft? It's the latest speculation. It had to have been heavy due to having full tanks. But I thought that's mostly impossible given that pilots on modern planes switch to auto thrust pretty early like at around 500 ft and maybe autopilot at the same time or later depending on what they're doing from what I've read.
 
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MolaKule said:
When we lived in St. Louis my wife was a Flying nurse and flew with patients on the St. Louis, Nashville, Houston, Nicaragua, and Mexico routes on the Learjet 35 series, so this hits close to home. Sometimes family members were also on board during these flights.

One thing they stressed was the proper application and administration of oxygen to patients during all phases of flight in order to avoid an enriched oxygen atmosphere within the cabin.
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Good point about this being a medical transport, and the possibility of oxygen tanks for patient use.

I wonder if it's possible (and this is just speculation) that an oxygen tank valve was left on at some point during pre-departure, or if there could have been a leak, possibly fully or partially saturating the cabin. That could definitely lead to serious fire. As we know, even materials that ordinarily wouldn't be terribly flammable, can be ignited under an enriched O2 environment.

IF a conflagration occurred in the cabin during or shortly after takeoff, it would certainly be capable of incapacitating the crew quickly. And that would explain the very fast descent that we all witnessed on the videos of the crash (supposedly only about 30 seconds after takeoff; they may not have had the chance to reduce thrust or react at all).

What a tragedy. RIP and prayers for the victims and their families.
 
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The thing about flying is that there is far more opportunity to manage risk than there is in driving.
Accidents are often predictable due to a decision to operate equipment with known airworthiness deficiencies or to launch into conditions that exceed the limitations of the equipment or of the pilot.
In driving, one has the constant risk of both fixed objects close to the right of way as well as that of other vehicles. These are not risks that can be mitigated.
Overall, a properly maintained aircraft operated within its limitations by a pilot who recognizes his own limitations will always be safer than driving and it's silly to argue otherwise.
We don't know what happened in the case of this Lear but we will once a detailed investigation is completed. There will be lessons learned and possibly regulatory changes based upon them.
 
Another tragedy.

From what I have seen, the ( extremely high climb performance ) Learjet was cleared take off from runway 24 ( 240 degrees ) and told by the Tower to turn right to a heading of 290 degrees ( 50 degree heading change ) as part of the take off clearance. Most turns ( unless the local airport departure procedures say otherwise ) issued to pilots by the Tower are initiated at 400 feet. I notice the aircraft climbed straight ahead until just above 1000 feet and seemed to turn slightly right ( correct direction ) and then started losing altitude and began turning left.

It was night ( good visibility ) , low ceiling on departure meaning the pilots would be in the clouds fast and on the flight instruments right away if hand flying ( and monitoring if the auto pilot was engaged right after take off ).

Aircraft take off weight was light because they were only flying 1000 miles to another airport before continuing to Mexico. Even better performance.

Curious if they were hand flying or had the autopilot on. High rate of climb , right into the clouds and turning can be spatially disorientating.

Another video shows it coming down in a very steep angle at high speed.

Pilot incapacitation, instrument failure, auto pilot failure ( not monitoring properly ) or just spatial disorientation? Loss of control, either pilot error or some extremely rare catastrophic mechanical problem?

Another bizarre crash.

The landing lights would have still been on ( turn them off above 10,000 usually ) and that’s possibly why the bright glow shows in the nose down crash video.



 
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Spro4Life said:
Definitely no phobias of any kind as that's just mental excuses for those that can't control their mindset. I clearly know what I like and find the best solution for ME. At the end of the day that counts and I don't care what others do/believe in.
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And finding what works for you is fine, however claiming that believing that flying is safer than driving is "..buy(ing) into the BS", is just wrong. Commercial flying in the US is much safer than driving and that cannot really be disputed. GA is a different story.
 
fdcg27 said:
The thing about flying is that there is far more opportunity to manage risk than there is in driving.
Accidents are often predictable due to a decision to operate equipment with known airworthiness deficiencies or to launch into conditions that exceed the limitations of the equipment or of the pilot.
In driving, one has the constant risk of both fixed objects close to the right of way as well as that of other vehicles. These are not risks that can be mitigated.
Overall, a properly maintained aircraft operated within its limitations by a pilot who recognizes his own limitations will always be safer than driving and it's silly to argue otherwise.
We don't know what happened in the case of this Lear but we will once a detailed investigation is completed. There will be lessons learned and possibly regulatory changes based upon them.
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Closest I ever came to being killed…..going up a steep hill and meeting a car head on in my lane near the top.

Never had that problem flying.

Flying is safe but those nervous, irrational types will be having a hard time lately with what’s been in the news.
 
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john_pifer said:
Guys, can I make a suggestion? Let's stop with the bickering and personal attacks. I'd like this thread to be able to stay open for information about the crash, and not get locked.

There are several guys here whose opinions I'd like to hear, who haven't yet posted.
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I'd like to see the thread kept to facts instead of speculation by uniformed parties but I'm never going to get what I want either.
 
I flew the other day, Allegiant of all airlines. I even practiced some MMA moves in case of the insanity that occurs on these flights. The journey went smoothly, just 1 crying baby, no big deal. Very smooth landing too. I was not concerned with flying despite recent events.

I know flying with a large airline is one of the safest forms of travel. Rail might be up there too. As an insurance adjuster, I inspect totaled cars and write repair estimates all week long. I doubt there similar numbers for airplanes, even when wings bump into each other air the gate occasionaly, probably super rare.
 
Just a civilian pilot said:
Closest I ever came to being killed…..going up a steep hill and meeting a car head on in my lane near the top.

Never had that problem flying.

Flying is safe but those nervous, irrational types will be having a hard time lately with what’s been in the news.
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I would trust my life with you anytime over any other form of transport that I ride in
p.s. a long time ago I had a commercial Ultralight license in Canada and built and flew an Eipper MX-2
 
The troll will no longer be posting in this thread. Some of the worst examples are removed.

There are many possible explanations - high performance aircraft like this one are unforgiving, however, when I see a loss of control on a full jet carrying unusual passengers and cargo, I can’t help but wonder if there was a CG shift caused by improper loading or improper securing of the load, that renders the airplane uncontrollable.
 
Astro14 said:
The troll will no longer be posting in this thread. Some of the worst examples are removed.

There are many possible explanations - high performance aircraft like this one are unforgiving, however, when I see a loss of control on a full jet carrying unusual passengers and cargo, I can’t help but wonder if there was a CG shift caused by improper loading or improper securing of the load, that renders the airplane uncontrollable.
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I was just wondering about that.
 
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