Philips Victory/Philips Anti-Rust/Camguard/etc

[jdwilson44]

Not sure if this information is complied all in one place or not but im quite confused on all these additives and oils.

1. Starting with Philips 66 20W-50 aviation oil I have been told by Philips I can mix in up to 10% of Philips anti-rust oil into into my oil to gain more corrosion resistance. Are there any negatives to doing this? does anti-rust have any compounds that can be detected on a VOA? or is it something else being added.

2. I'm told that using Camguard can also help me with corrosion, should I also add Camguard to the mix above? are there differences between anti-rust oil and Camguard ? do i gain some other extra element in Camguard that is not in anti-rust oil?

3. Philips Victory contains an anti-scuff additive, since my engine doesn't require this do I gain anything from using it? in other words does adding an anti-scuff additive to an oil mix decrease wear rates or do anything else useful?

To me it seems overkill to make the following oil mix Philips victory 20w-50 add 10% anti-rust, add Camguard

 

[MolaKule]

Adding Camguard should be sufficient since it includes additional anti-rust, anti-oxidant, anti-wear, and anti-scuff chemistrys.

 

[Taildragger]

Aviation Consumer News had an article a few years ago that really liked Phillips 20w-50 with Camguard over all the rest.

 

[Tom NJ]

Camguard has been around for many years and has a great reputation. It is a potent anti-corrosion additive that is widely used in aircraft piston engines. I know the chemist who formulated it and have the greatest respect for him and his technical capabilities.

 

[jdwilson44]

Adding Camguard should be sufficient since it includes additional anti-rust, anti-oxidant, anti-wear, and anti-scuff chemistrys.

I'm interested in leaning more about the chemistry specifically what's in these oils, for example do all three contain phosphorus compounds for protection? what role does calcium, boron, or other compounds play a role in each of these oils?

Are there compounds in these oils that may not show up on a VOA? If the compounds are unknown can a guess be made as to what they are? for example how would you make a oil "anti-rust" when designed for aircraft piston engines?

Thanks

 

[MolaKule]

I'm interested in leaning more about the chemistry specifically what's in these oils, for example do all three contain phosphorus compounds for protection? what role does calcium, boron, or other compounds play a role in each of these oils?

See post #10 here:

Thread 'Additives XII-Multifunctional additives'

Jul 1, 2003

As a review of additives, let us do this:

Name at least one additive that functions in more than role. That is, name one or more of the Multifunctional additives.

[ July 21, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

• MolaKule
• Replies: 43
• Forum: Question of the Day

Oil formulae is Intellectual Property so you will never know the formula.

Are there compounds in these oils that may not show up on a VOA?

Yes.

If the compounds are unknown can a guess be made as to what they are? for example how would you make a oil "anti-rust" when designed for aircraft piston engines?

Thanks

OIl formulae is Intellectual Property so you will never know the formula.

 

[Cujet]

The SDS for Camguard lists:

Thiophosphate derivative, (8-12%) Guess: Anti wear/ and possible mild anti corrosion
Benzotriazole derivative, (1-3%) Guess: Corrosion inhibitor
Carboxylates, Guess: Detergent
Calcium sulfonates, Guess: Corrosion inhibitor
Possible addl organic phosphates, Guess: Anti wear

Another guess, the remainder of the 11 herbs and spices would be carrier oils and petroleum distillates.

I've used Camguard extensively in our fleet of toys. I'd love to say it has prevented problems. But the truth is, I just don't have any way to know. What I do know is that we had Lycoming sticking exhaust valves with the use of Aeroshell 100, and the problem pretty much went away with the use of Aeroshell 15W-50. The 15W-50 resulted in slightly higher oil consumption in newer engines and higher oil consumption in experienced engines. Even so, those engines remain trouble free and would easily start without preheating in 20 degree weather.

I did switch to Phillips 25W-60 in my 177RG due to high oil consumption, with good results. Oil use went from 1qt in 2-3hr to 1 in 4.5hr.

Extra NG, Lyc aerobatic IO580 power.
Nice smooth engine, fast plane, gobs of power, but has oil temp problems, despite multiple oil coolers and pilot attempts to manage temps via power settings and airspeed. BTW, will cruise at 190Kts!

Stock AEIO 540 Lycoming. Boring compared to the hot rod below.

10 to 1, hot cam, blueprinted, higher RPM Lycoming IO540, 340HP. A true fire breathing monster!

 

[jdwilson44]

thanks for this, i guess i should have started with the SDS for these products. So just looking at what you provided above to me it seems safe to assume that camguard has a little bit of everything, anti corrosion, anti wear, etc.

My next thought was to check the Philips anti-rust oil and look at the SDS, but it only contains petroleum. Im wondering what makes it "anti-rust" im assuming if they included some type of phos type compound it would show in the SDS

 

[jdwilson44]

See post #10 here:

Thank you this was very helpful to help understand

 

[Cujet]

thanks for this, i guess i should have started with the SDS for these products. So just looking at what you provided above to me it seems safe to assume that camguard has a little bit of everything, anti corrosion, anti wear, etc.

My next thought was to check the Philips anti-rust oil and look at the SDS, but it only contains petroleum. Im wondering what makes it "anti-rust" im assuming if they included some type of phos type compound it would show in the SDS

You are very welcome. No promises that I have it all correct

Like others, I've spoken to Ed Collin for quite some time. Nicest guy around, and very forthcoming with information. I have no doubt that Camguard contains pungent herbs and spices that the oil itself does not. Sure, I'm being silly, but Camguard mixed with aviation oil has a distinctive odor, almost a bit skunk-like. This tells me it is unique.

I use it and smile a bit when I catch a whiff of it on descent.

 

[Mr_Joe]

I think it’s always best to fly the aircraft regularly, like inside every 14 days. I use a little Camguard myself, but don’t like an engine sitting & not running.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I’ve read that Ed Kollin fell ill recently but he used to specifically recommend Phillips X/C 20W-50 with ASL camguard added at the ratio specified on the bottle, and that is what he used in his own aircraft if I recall correctly

I wish we could get a 5W-50 or even 10W-50 suitable for cold weather without so much need to preheat, but it seems like the market isn’t worth the R&D to develop such a lubricant for legacy air cooled engines. In addition it sounds like that kind of product might be too expensive to produce profitably for a niche application. Maybe I’m wrong and there are other reasons (regulatory/milspec) we don’t see one.

Rotax has a 5W-50 for their liquid cooled aviation engines but they run much cooler CHTs so I presume can be additized differently. In the meantime I use Aeroshell 15W-50 with camguard and carry a jump pack for the sub zero starting that strains the battery, preheating the engine where possible.

Here is a lot of good info from Mr. Kollin from another forum that discusses many aspects of piston engine aircraft oil: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...ar-additives-vs-camguard.125670/#post-2909449

 

[Cujet]

I don't go as far North as some of you, but I always wondered why not configure a Honda EU1000 generator as an engine pre-heater. Use the 800W to power a heating element. The exhaust heat can be used too, along with the engine's blower.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I don't go as far North as some of you, but I always wondered why not configure a Honda EU1000 generator as an engine pre-heater. Use the 800W to power a heating element. The exhaust heat can be used too, along with the engine's blower.

It’s a good idea. I had a red dragon propane powered heater with a battery powered fan but it’s big and bulky with the propane tank. I think I had read that the small generators can be tough to start themselves under 0F but they’re small enough to bring inside overnight

 

[Cujet]

It’s a good idea. I had a red dragon propane powered heater with a battery powered fan but it’s big and bulky with the propane tank. I think I had read that the small generators can be tough to start themselves under 0F but they’re small enough to bring inside overnight

The little Honda EU1000 does not like cold weather. It actually needs a few known mods: A carb rejet with a larger main jet, and heating element (small wire) in the breather hole to keep it from icing up and airflow mods. Or a secondary engine breather. But they will start and run on 100LL just fine, as long as the spark plug is changed every year.

It seems that when properly modified, they can be used down to 40 below!

At this point in my life, extreme cold seems to be something to avoid at all costs.