Was at the GM parts counter and photographed a PF 48 and PF 63 that were on display. You can clearly see the length difference. Enjoy.
Last edited:
PF 48 and PF 63
- Thread starter Snagglefoot
- Start date
Are PH 48E and Ph 63E interchangeable?
Originally Posted by bobbobtar
Are PH 48E and Ph 63E interchangeable?
No the PF63E has a different bypass setting than the PF48
Are PH 48E and Ph 63E interchangeable?
No the PF63E has a different bypass setting than the PF48
48E - 12psi bypass
63E - 22psi bypass
IMO you could use the taller one if you had space. The higher bypass probably wouldn't hurt a thing.
63E - 22psi bypass
IMO you could use the taller one if you had space. The higher bypass probably wouldn't hurt a thing.
I'm looking for alternatives to the PH 48 which is the only filter available for the 2020 Silverado 1500 3.0L diesel
Did we just step back in time 7 years? The ph48 and ph63 have the same bypass pressure. The aftermarket filter makers used the ford fl500s spec which is dimensionally the same but a lower bypass setting which is where all this bypass nonsense came in.
Originally Posted by bobbobtar
I'm looking for alternatives to the PH 48 which is the only filter available for the 2020 Silverado 1500 3.0L diesel
I thought the 2020 diesel required a PF66. Is my info incorrect?
I'm looking for alternatives to the PH 48 which is the only filter available for the 2020 Silverado 1500 3.0L diesel
I thought the 2020 diesel required a PF66. Is my info incorrect?
Originally Posted by ctechbob
48E - 12psi bypass
63E - 22psi bypass
I believe this is correct. Looking at past forum entries and the Fram Website, the Fram XG10060 is the same as the PH48 and is listed as 9-15 psi. Then there was an issue with the Fram 10575, which was a replacement for the PH63. It was lagging the PH63 because it still had the 12-15 psi bypass pressure. Last year or so, the Fram 10575 bypass pressure was changed to 16-28 psi to match the PH63.
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
According to Fram the new 10575 filters have a white coloured bypass valve which you can see with a flashlight aimed down the center hole. Old stock would have a black coloured bypass valve.
As for using a high bypass filter where a low bypass filter is spec'd, I really don't want to argue what would happen. Probably it would not be noticed, I guess.
48E - 12psi bypass
63E - 22psi bypass
I believe this is correct. Looking at past forum entries and the Fram Website, the Fram XG10060 is the same as the PH48 and is listed as 9-15 psi. Then there was an issue with the Fram 10575, which was a replacement for the PH63. It was lagging the PH63 because it still had the 12-15 psi bypass pressure. Last year or so, the Fram 10575 bypass pressure was changed to 16-28 psi to match the PH63.
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
According to Fram the new 10575 filters have a white coloured bypass valve which you can see with a flashlight aimed down the center hole. Old stock would have a black coloured bypass valve.
As for using a high bypass filter where a low bypass filter is spec'd, I really don't want to argue what would happen. Probably it would not be noticed, I guess.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by ctechbob
48E - 12psi bypass
63E - 22psi bypass
I believe this is correct. Looking at past forum entries and the Fram Website, the Fram XG10060 is the same as the PH48 and is listed as 9-15 psi. Then there was an issue with the Fram 10575, which was a replacement for the PH63. It was lagging the PH63 because it still had the 12-15 psi bypass pressure. Last year or so, the Fram 10575 bypass pressure was changed to 16-28 psi to match the PH63.
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
According to Fram the new 10575 filters have a white coloured bypass valve which you can see with a flashlight aimed down the center hole. Old stock would have a black coloured bypass valve.
As for using a high bypass filter where a low bypass filter is spec'd, I really don't want to argue what would happen. Probably it would not be noticed, I guess.
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
Originally Posted by ctechbob
48E - 12psi bypass
63E - 22psi bypass
I believe this is correct. Looking at past forum entries and the Fram Website, the Fram XG10060 is the same as the PH48 and is listed as 9-15 psi. Then there was an issue with the Fram 10575, which was a replacement for the PH63. It was lagging the PH63 because it still had the 12-15 psi bypass pressure. Last year or so, the Fram 10575 bypass pressure was changed to 16-28 psi to match the PH63.
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
According to Fram the new 10575 filters have a white coloured bypass valve which you can see with a flashlight aimed down the center hole. Old stock would have a black coloured bypass valve.
As for using a high bypass filter where a low bypass filter is spec'd, I really don't want to argue what would happen. Probably it would not be noticed, I guess.
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
I stand corrected the 3.0L diesel does take PH66 not PH48
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I think the purpose of the variable displacement pumps is multifaceted ... with this in the toolkit ... the engineers can feed piston jets and oil coolers ... move more oil when demands call for it ... ideal feed for turbo etc. Reduce flow and not waste energy to relief valve.
For example my 1.4T is not going to use it exactly like my 5.3 L83.
The 70 psi is a load case ... cruise is around 38 psi ... idle can be as low as 25 psi.
To say the sole purpose is economic is cutting these systems short. Many people have them in several makes and just don't know that, or they have electric power steering, or grill shutters
For example my 1.4T is not going to use it exactly like my 5.3 L83.
The 70 psi is a load case ... cruise is around 38 psi ... idle can be as low as 25 psi.
To say the sole purpose is economic is cutting these systems short. Many people have them in several makes and just don't know that, or they have electric power steering, or grill shutters
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
I see what you are saying. Normally if something plugs the filter, your bypass opens and you still feed oil to the engine, but it is not filtered. Your 40 psi is correct for your 2011 6.0, and your idle pressure is a bit low, but not a problem. Keep in mind also, your 20 psi is measured at a gage at the top of the engine and is a function of the back pressure created by the clearances of the components of the engine such as bearings and tappet clearances, and the viscosity of the hot oil. ( for the experts out there, let's just call it viscosity). The 20 psi for the filter is the Differential pressure , or pressure drop measured across the filter. In a blind off situation, your pressure gage would momentarily go to 0 and the pump pressure would climb. After that it gets complicated because the spring in your pump would want to dump oil in the pan, but the differential pressure would get high and the bypass might open. I suppose you might want to be concerned by it but chances of a blind off at idle are pretty small, maybe ridiculously small. Maybe the best thing is to just stay with your factory specified bypass pressure after all.
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
I see what you are saying. Normally if something plugs the filter, your bypass opens and you still feed oil to the engine, but it is not filtered. Your 40 psi is correct for your 2011 6.0, and your idle pressure is a bit low, but not a problem. Keep in mind also, your 20 psi is measured at a gage at the top of the engine and is a function of the back pressure created by the clearances of the components of the engine such as bearings and tappet clearances, and the viscosity of the hot oil. ( for the experts out there, let's just call it viscosity). The 20 psi for the filter is the Differential pressure , or pressure drop measured across the filter. In a blind off situation, your pressure gage would momentarily go to 0 and the pump pressure would climb. After that it gets complicated because the spring in your pump would want to dump oil in the pan, but the differential pressure would get high and the bypass might open. I suppose you might want to be concerned by it but chances of a blind off at idle are pretty small, maybe ridiculously small. Maybe the best thing is to just stay with your factory specified bypass pressure after all.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
I see what you are saying. Normally if something plugs the filter, your bypass opens and you still feed oil to the engine, but it is not filtered. Your 40 psi is correct for your 2011 6.0, and your idle pressure is a bit low, but not a problem. Keep in mind also, your 20 psi is measured at a gage at the top of the engine and is a function of the back pressure created by the clearances of the components of the engine such as bearings and tappet clearances, and the viscosity of the hot oil. ( for the experts out there, let's just call it viscosity). The 20 psi for the filter is the Differential pressure , or pressure drop measured across the filter. In a blind off situation, your pressure gage would momentarily go to 0 and the pump pressure would climb. After that it gets complicated because the spring in your pump would want to dump oil in the pan, but the differential pressure would get high and the bypass might open. I suppose you might want to be concerned by it but chances of a blind off at idle are pretty small, maybe ridiculously small. Maybe the best thing is to just stay with your factory specified bypass pressure after all.
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I believe the only danger would be on an engine that had a somewhat worn oil pump that was having issues maintaining higher oil pressure-if the filter blinds off, the bypass would stop (most of the) oil flow, leading to potential engine damage. The Express in my sig never really gets over 40 PSI (if the dash gauge is to be believed) and hot idle pressure is in the mid 20s, too close to the newer LS filter bypass pressure for me.
I see what you are saying. Normally if something plugs the filter, your bypass opens and you still feed oil to the engine, but it is not filtered. Your 40 psi is correct for your 2011 6.0, and your idle pressure is a bit low, but not a problem. Keep in mind also, your 20 psi is measured at a gage at the top of the engine and is a function of the back pressure created by the clearances of the components of the engine such as bearings and tappet clearances, and the viscosity of the hot oil. ( for the experts out there, let's just call it viscosity). The 20 psi for the filter is the Differential pressure , or pressure drop measured across the filter. In a blind off situation, your pressure gage would momentarily go to 0 and the pump pressure would climb. After that it gets complicated because the spring in your pump would want to dump oil in the pan, but the differential pressure would get high and the bypass might open. I suppose you might want to be concerned by it but chances of a blind off at idle are pretty small, maybe ridiculously small. Maybe the best thing is to just stay with your factory specified bypass pressure after all.
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Originally Posted by 4WD
I think the purpose of the variable displacement pumps is multifaceted ... with this in the toolkit ... the engineers can feed piston jets and oil coolers ... move more oil when demands call for it ... ideal feed for turbo etc. Reduce flow and not waste energy to relief valve.
For example my 1.4T is not going to use it exactly like my 5.3 L83.
The 70 psi is a load case ... cruise is around 38 psi ... idle can be as low as 25 psi.
To say the sole purpose is economic is cutting these systems short. Many people have them in several makes and just don't know that, or they have electric power steering, or grill shutters
Good point. 70 when you hit the gas and put it under load, and 38 when cruising along. Thanks.
I think the purpose of the variable displacement pumps is multifaceted ... with this in the toolkit ... the engineers can feed piston jets and oil coolers ... move more oil when demands call for it ... ideal feed for turbo etc. Reduce flow and not waste energy to relief valve.
For example my 1.4T is not going to use it exactly like my 5.3 L83.
The 70 psi is a load case ... cruise is around 38 psi ... idle can be as low as 25 psi.
To say the sole purpose is economic is cutting these systems short. Many people have them in several makes and just don't know that, or they have electric power steering, or grill shutters
Good point. 70 when you hit the gas and put it under load, and 38 when cruising along. Thanks.
P
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Also, watch out for the O ring issue on the oil intake tube. There's lots of info on it int this Forum.
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Also, watch out for the O ring issue on the oil intake tube. There's lots of info on it int this Forum.
P
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Also, watch out for the O ring issue on the oil intake tube. There's lots of info on it on this Forum.
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
I used to have a 350 TBI Suburban that would drop hot idle pressure all the way down to 10 PSI, sometimes even causing lifter clatter, but 20W50 cleared that up pretty quickly. Hoping I'm not heading down the same path here, but I imagine a timing chain (& front mounted oil pump) replacement would be likely needed if I get this 6.0 from 143K to over 200K (like the Sub had)
Also, watch out for the O ring issue on the oil intake tube. There's lots of info on it on this Forum.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
Just to note, just because the oil pressure is high doesn't necessarily mean the delta-p across the filter is high. Even though the oil pressure may be at 70, the delta-p across the filter can be way below 22 psi, especially with hot oil.
From what I understand, GM raised the filter bypass valve setting to ensure mainly on cold starts with cold thick oil that the filter didn't hit bypass as easily based on the location of the pressure sensor the controlled the pump output. In other words, it sounds like the oil pump could put out a large volume spike of oil before full oil pressure feed back control was established. But I always wondered by that's no different than a plain old fashioned PD oil pump that puts out more than needed oil flow at low RPM.
The PH63 bypass pressure was established as 22 psi around 2013 when the Gen V engines had their oil pumps redesigned to be two stage pumps with a highway cruising oil pressure of 70 psi. With the higher pressure the oil filter had to be redesigned to keep the oil filter from accidentally going into the bypass mode. Keep in mind this is 70 psi measured at the intake manifold galley and the 22 psi is differential pressure measured across the bypass valve.
Just to note, just because the oil pressure is high doesn't necessarily mean the delta-p across the filter is high. Even though the oil pressure may be at 70, the delta-p across the filter can be way below 22 psi, especially with hot oil.
From what I understand, GM raised the filter bypass valve setting to ensure mainly on cold starts with cold thick oil that the filter didn't hit bypass as easily based on the location of the pressure sensor the controlled the pump output. In other words, it sounds like the oil pump could put out a large volume spike of oil before full oil pressure feed back control was established. But I always wondered by that's no different than a plain old fashioned PD oil pump that puts out more than needed oil flow at low RPM.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
.... or one can use the engine the filter was designed for.
Snaggle
You are missing a couple of E's in the thread title. I love-me some Ecores lately. They are much gooder, than 15 years ago.
Snaggle
You are missing a couple of E's in the thread title. I love-me some Ecores lately. They are much gooder, than 15 years ago.
