People Who Whine About Engine Oil Prices

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
Geez. Get over it. It's only oil.


That I can agree with.

So don't waste money!

Still no facts to back up your opinion, unless you cede the floor?


Oh my gosh. Absolutely not. I refuse to give ground here. Cheap oil should all be poured down the drain....or relegated to 2 qt per day oil burners.


Donate that oil to me! I'll laugh all the way to the bank...

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
It was a facetious comment. I guess most of you guys are well over 50 years old. You sound like old fogeys...always needing everything explained to you in minute detail before you understand anything. Geez. Get over it. It's only oil.


Well now, I spent over 25 years in the oil industry and I don't need anything explained to me. From an old fogey to someone who will also be one someday, remember this, respect gets respect. You are correct, it's only oil and I RESPECT your opinion, but I do not agree with it. Have a great week.

 

[glennc]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
Cheap oil should all be poured down the drain....or relegated to 2 qt per day oil burners.

That's a ridiculous opinion, even if you're exaggerating. Some of the best UOAs and highest mileage engines come with cheap oil. Today's cheap oil is excellent. If every BITOGer or even every enthusiast used expensive oil it would be a small waste of resources, but based on your opinion not only BITOGers but the public at large should use expensive oil. That would be an immense misdirection of resources.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder

Hmmmmm. Are you by any chance being a tad facetious here?


Oops...

"additives necessary to reduce engine wear"

Still waiting Bob............................

 

[FZ1]

Thanks for the backup,Junkie. I'm not the only person who has noticed a slight increase. I'm also sure there are others that didn't get, or notice, an increase. Perhaps the dealer fill was 5-30 so that the thin M1 5-20 I used made the increase more noticeable.

 

[Drew99GT]

mmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, a change in VISCOSITY that led to the increase in mpg (NOT SYNTHETIC vs. DINO). Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
As far as mpg and synth oil goes, Audi & Castrol test found 2% better mpg on German Syntec SLX 0w-30 over 15w-40 HDEO.


No data for 5w-30 GTX vs Syntec 5w-30, right?

I'll make a BOLD prediction...start an engine at 20 below 0 F with 20W-50 conventional oil in the crankcase, and that engine will get measurably less fuel mileage than Mobil 1 0w-20 over the same conditions.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

 

[Bryanccfshr]

AJ, I don't think that test is valid just because of HT/HS viscosity. The viscosity index and ambient temperature viscosity's are key factors in efficiency. HT/HS is a factor but only one of many.
To claim that that test means syn is better than Dino based solely on one measurement of viscosity ignores all the time the vehicle is operated at less than optimal temperature and not under shear stress. A very small percentage of the oil is under shear stress at anyone time. The main drag is actually pumping loss which is a factor of the viscosity of the oil at any given temperature . A 15w40 is of course going to be much thicker than a 0w30 at all temperatures other than that which the Two examples Viscosity indexes cross on a graph which is obviously at the point of measure of HT/HS. Al temperatures below that the 0w30 is going to be a lower viscosity and the 15w40 will be the higher viscosity.

Measure the operational difference between a 5w30 energy conserving conventional and a 5w30 synthetic in normal American driving conditions and I doubt we see a measurable if 1% difference in the Mileage. Now Take it to the arctic in winter and I will opt for synthetic because in that situation there is benefit to the higher VI of the synthetic base stock.

If we are going to site studies let's use all the facts and not just the parts that support our argument.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

FZ1 You noticed a difference because you went from a 5w30 to a 5w20! I remeber when I discovered the viscosity difference when I changed some RTS5w40 for Motorcraft 5w20 in a 160 hp 4 banger. .... WOW!

That's viscosity being expressed.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Comparing GC 0w-30 to 15w-40 is valid, not because I'm saying the visc is the same, but because the application could be the same ~because~ the HT/HS is the same.

 

[FZ1]

No,I don't know that the dealer fill was other than 5-20. I'm just thinking of one possible explanation for the increase I noticed. Got a free dealer fill 2 weeks ago and was told by the tech that the dealer fill was 5-20 Citgo.

 

[Drew99GT]

I'm not trying to be a horses rear end, I'm trying to let newbies who peruse this sight know this: don't fall for the bit that $10/quart oil is magically going to take a vehicle to 300,000 miles. I fell for that trap when i first came here.

And that's not to take away from those who want to spend $10/quart on oil! There is one tried and true fact about Amsoil and other boutique synthetic oils: IN A SOUND ENGINE (ie, one that has a maintained ignition and fuel system, no air leaks, and no internal coolant leaks!!!) they are capable of at least, if not more than twice the drain intervals of conventional oil. PROVEN.

But will they magically make your vehicle go past 300,000 miles? Especially when other pressing factors are at play, like the trans, brakes, suspension, frame, rust, paint, tires, glass, molding, fuel system, ignition system etc. etc. etc.? All I have to say again is, prove it!

Case in point: my pop's 98 Blazer now has 225,000 miles. Engine is great - has the same oil pressure as the day it rolled off the assembly line, and gets above avg EPA fuel mileage (especially after I put new plus/wires/cap/rotor in it!) (I posted pics of the trip computer if you want to search...). It's on it's 2nd trans and the suspension and the rest of the truck is literally falling apart around the motor. Mostly because it's been driven on rough Rocky Mountain roads.

How would $10/quart oil have helped this situation???

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Comparing GC 0w-30 to 15w-40 is valid, not because I'm saying the visc is the same, but because the application could be the same ~because~ the HT/HS is the same.


What???

OK, the HT/HS may be the same..........how's the CCS and MRV at 10F??? Wouldn't that have way more affect on fuel mileage?

I'd surmise that if you operated an engine in 100 F or greater ambient temps, all else being equal, you couldn't even find a difference in fuel mileage between GC 0w-30 and Delo 15w-40.

 

[Dupree]

Bobby the builder, holy cow did you step in it. The point is don't go and post a bashing post letting everyone know there oil sucks if its not the super quassi 3000 motor super oil. You have such rights to make statements like that, but understand if you attack others they will fight back. Proof would be a good base point but admitting you have never done an UOA what ????? Also I am 30 not sure if it qualify's for "fogy status" but these older gents have years of experience and might just be able to help.......

 

[qwertydude]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I run the synthetic 'cause it's cheaper,as I get up to 1 mpg more.


Lets see the math.
3500/20= 175 G. 3500/21= 167 G.


You'd have to show me every tank of gas calculated perfectly with 3 consecutive runs of the same conventional oil and 3 consecutive runs of the same synthetic for me to believe oil of the same viscosity would give you a tenth of a mpg, let alone 1 or 2. Oh, and you'd have to monitor tire pressures at each fuel up as well, along with other variables (of which there are many) that affect fuel mileage. Just :2cents:

No,thank you.


Its easy to write something on a board but hard to have actual data.

The problem is there are people here who have done the work THEN post.

Then there are people who just post.

We know Bob is one.

Which one FZ1 are you?

Take care, bill




Cmon now bill. Let's not get all contemptuous here. I thought you'd be able to handle being wrong. I guess not.

Just kidding bill. Please take a break and grow some thicker skin and then you can come out and play some more.

Yup, when you have no FACTS to back up your claim, you call your opponent "contemptuous" (which is bizarre in it's own right)...Thought you'd be able to throw out facts backing up your claims without calling dissenters contemptuous. ( OOPS) ...

Keep diggin builder...

FACTS: FACTS: Still waiting on the additives in Amsoil..........let me rephrase that: the "LACKING ADDITIVES IN CONVENTIONAL OIL (or heck, synthetic blend or over the counter synthetic oil

) "
"THAT REDUCE ENGINE WEAR"

Love these quotes within quotes. Oh and as for eating like a king I hear if you throw those shrimps into your crankcase so your car may eat like a king it will reward you with a million miles on an engine.

 

[FZ1]

Maybe You just wouldn't notice it. Lol.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Are you serious AJ? You would run a 15w40 instead of a 0w30 ? Would you? This is not a syntheitic Vs- Conventional moment here. This is a common sense one. 15w40 will in no way perform as well as a 0w,5,w or a 10w30! If the only basis you have for selecting an oil is HT/HS you are ignoring many other quality control facotrs that can help you improve performance. Yes, Many Eropean manufactureres in the past have and for the time being require 3.5 or higher HTHS. Just becasue a 15w40 has the appropriate HTHS does not mean it is an appropriate selection and you are still comparing Apples to basketballs.
Certainly you understand the curve of viscosity index in relation to temperature and how a motor oil designed mainly for offroad equipment and overthe road tractors that are run for days at a time is not a sensible selection for a personal light gasoline powered vehicle with much shorter and more frequent duty cycles?

Do you think it would be a fair comparison to pit Amsoil AME 14w40 against Yellow bottle Pennzoil 5w20 in a 2008 Jeep Wrangler? If the penzoil gets better mileage obviously conventional is more effecient than Synthetic.

Donate the Amsoil HDEO And I will test each for 1k miles.. Well I will test the Amsoil first for only 1k. and drop it for the Pennzoil for a full OCI since Gas cost alot!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Do you think it would be a fair comparison to pit Amsoil AME 14w40 against Yellow bottle Pennzoil 5w20 in a 2008 Jeep Wrangler? If the penzoil gets better mileage obviously conventional is more effecient than Synthetic.


I'll horn in here. You're, more or less, proving the point of differences in VI ..or for argument's sakem, "apparent viscosity", there's a distinction however slight or broad. You can easily see it in a broad comparison of something with a compressed VI and a higher viscosity and a broad VI and lower visc fluid ..but can't rationalize it between two apples or bananas when they're in head to head competition.

A synth tends to give you a head start to warm up visc over a conventional. However slight or extreme that may be is up for grabs ..but the difference is there.

..or are you saying that the whole evolution to lower cold viscosities and broadened VI fluids is merely imaginary in benefit??

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Dupree
Bobby the builder, holy cow did you step in it. The point is don't go and post a bashing post letting everyone know there oil sucks if its not the super quassi 3000 motor super oil. You have such rights to make statements like that, but understand if you attack others they will fight back. Proof would be a good base point but admitting you have never done an UOA what ????? Also I am 30 not sure if it qualify's for "fogy status" but these older gents have years of experience and might just be able to help.......


Very good points. I completely agree! Sometimes, if younger people quit spouting off stuff they know nothing about, they might learn something from those of us who proudly have "fogy status"!

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: Bob The Builder

Hmmmmm. Are you by any chance being a tad facetious here?


Oops...

"additives necessary to reduce engine wear"

Still waiting Bob............................

I think you (we)are going to waiting a LONG time! LOL

But then again - to quote one of the greater minds of our time - "It's only oil"! LOL

 

[Ponch]

I think I am gonna leave BITOG?.... I dont like sarcastic people like "bob the builder" tryin to "stir the pot".....and trying to make people angry... "by talking about our age" I have better things to do with my life than listen to some guy babble on with how smart he is, when in reality he probably got teased as a child, has a mullet, and might be old himself?? Goodbye everyone!!!

Bye the way............ AAammzoiiillll ==junk!