People so unreasonable sometimes...

Originally Posted by dogememe
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Don't see where the customer was lied to. She came in, he offered to buy her car, she accepted. Omitting a piece of information is not a lie and every last one of us has done it.
This. She got more for her car at less of a hassle than trying to sell it on the street/FB marketplace/CL/etc. The shop owner did the right thing. If I was in Florida I'd be applying to his shop because I'm bored at the parts store LOL.
That's how I see it. The OP paid full pop, had the help kept their mouth shut the woman would have gone home a happy camper. I know shops that would have tried like [censored] to get it running and sounding right hoping it made the trip home. Then when called out blamed it on the age of the car. Others would have instructed the help to shut up, then alerted the customer of the problem, saying something along the lines of you need an engine, and then made up a story to back it up.
 
Hey, good to see this thread back up, it's a very good one imo. I've already said my peace and had some fun along the way. It's about the bottom line for me, the customer got her asking price. Her after the fact indignation misplaced, and extortion threat, wrong.
 
A local shop years ago replaced the intake gaskets on my parents van for about $1000 (including some other work). They told him there were no signs that coolant had been getting into the oil, the leak was just external.... About a week later it spun a rod bearing. No engine issues prior to this, had good oil pressure until the day it started knocking. They had it towed in and diagnosed by the shop that just did the intake gaskets. $3500 plus tax to replace it with a used engine (have to remove the body to replace the engine on an all wheel drive GMC Safari). Either they got debris in one of the drain back holes or improper torquing of the bolts (I found a tsb about it distorting oiling holes and causing engine failure). Anyway they destroyed the engine and wouldn't give even a small amount of compensation. The van was towed somewhere else for a used engine and they never went back. That is what I call bad service.
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Hey, good to see this thread back up, it's a very good one imo. I've already said my peace and had some fun along the way. It's about the bottom line for me, the customer got her asking price. Her after the fact indignation misplaced, and extortion threat, wrong.
+1 Had the OP told her about the mistake before he purchased the car from her, IMO this would have gotten much more ugly, and the bottom line is that she would not have gained anything. I suspect that he knew about how unreasonable this woman could be. After being in the repair business for awhile, you gain a sixth sense about the demeanor of some customers. Kudos to the OP for stepping-up and purchasing the car from her and attempting to keep the situation civil.
 
Yeah I don't think anyone really understands completely unless they have been in the service business. I've never been a manager but I worked Saturdays part time for years after finishing school and the manager left decisions up to me and I could basically make management decisions (if I made the wrong one I really didn't need the job anymore - so it was low stress). Sometimes you can tell immediately when someone is a straight up trustworthy person, other times people are looking for any reason to give you a hard time or even extort you. Once I didn't need the job anymore I felt like I was all of a sudden invisible, if someone really [censored] me off it could be my last day lol and then nobody pushed me to the breaking point. Saturday customers were always more reasonable lol.
 
Originally Posted by dogememe
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Don't see where the customer was lied to. She came in, he offered to buy her car, she accepted. Omitting a piece of information is not a lie and every last one of us has done it.
This. She got more for her car at less of a hassle than trying to sell it on the street/FB marketplace/CL/etc. The shop owner did the right thing. If I was in Florida I'd be applying to his shop because I'm bored at the parts store LOL.
You really would want to work for a dishonest person willingly? Wow
 
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
 
Quote
This thread blows my mind. How do you react to being deceived? If you get mad it's your fault?
You're conflating at least two things here. Feeling deceived and perhaps expressing dissatisfaction one thing. As she got her price for the car though, and it after the fact, to my way of thinking it's unjustified indignation. Otoh, threating extortion clearly her "fault", and wrong. Mind blowing, not so much.
 
Originally Posted by AC1DD
Just want to let folks know that this thread is open for discussion once again. As always please keep OT and please be civil, no swearing, ect.. Thanks, and Merry Christmas! happy
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Why not just tell the truth? The coverup means there's something to hide.
How soon they forget. LOL
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Quote
This thread blows my mind. How do you react to being deceived? If you get mad it's your fault?
You're conflating at least two things here. Feeling deceived and perhaps expressing dissatisfaction one thing. As she got her price for the car though, and it after the fact, to my way of thinking it's unjustified indignation. Otoh, threating extortion clearly her "fault", and wrong. Mind blowing, not so much.
We can agree to disagree on this; it seems I am in the minority. I do not believe she extorted the owner; she was mad and handled it wrong. I believe the word extortion is too strong; others may disagree. However, it was the owner's deceit that set the entire fiasco into motion. I give him credit for buying the car for her asking price; that was a stand up move. I honestly believe a 5 minute phone call to the lady and perhaps offer a free service would make things better. Taking responsibility for one's mistakes is a sign of integrity. Some have said I may not understand how this business works. Not true; all buisness have differing customers, some easy to do business with and some the opposite. And I was part of my brother's highly respected full service shop, Comprehensive Mechanics, in Santa Cruz, CA for many years. Work on a customer's cars and you just became responsible for every issue it ever had. Greg had a simple guarantee: "If you don't like the service, you pay only for the parts and we never do business again." He was never taken up on it. Sayjac, again, how do you react when you feel deceived? If you get mad is it your fault?
 
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Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying.
Sure it is. Or should I say, it is if the information is pertinent. My ex tried this angle with me when she cheated. She was going to dinner with her co-worker, a girl I knew well, no big deal, so I thought. They got off work at 6:00, and about 11:00 pm she got home. I said "Wow that was a long dinner" and she said "Yea we talked a lot longer than I thought we would". What she DIDNT tell me, is that after talking for two hours at dinner with her girl co-worker/friend, on the way out around 8:00 on the way into the parking lot she ran into a guy she used to date, she turned around and went back into the restaurant to the bar with him, then an hour later went back to his apartment. Didnt tell me THAT part. I got to learn that part after a guy in my office who lived near the restaurant and was in there that night, and asked me the next morning "Hey who was that guy Mary was talking to in the bar at the restaurant last night?" In her eyes, she didnt lie. Because she did talk a long time at dinner, and was with her co-worker. Cheated, yes, she owned up to that, after going round and round with her about her story timeline just not adding up. The rest of the story, the part she left out, according to her wasnt dishonesty because I never asked about it, and she didnt talk about it, so her answer wasnt a lie. She was out with a co-worker friend, and they talked a long time. Oh my word. The whole conversation didnt go well after that point. There was a lot of yelling, most of it by me. The rest is history. Back to this car situation.... I'm really trying, but as hard as I try I cannot find the dishonesty in this car buying story here. There was certainly withholding of information, and if it were significant or relevant to the lady selling the car or the price Toad would have given her, or the price she would have received, then I see a problem. But that's not what happened here, so I don't see why some people find this situation so troubling. You guys do realize the car had a "For sale" sign on it before she drove to Toad's shop, dont you? What if I walked into Walmart, grabbed a 5qt jug of Mobil 1, and on the way to the register I whip out my phone, check my Facebook, and in the process of not paying attention to where I am walking plow right into a display shelf. No harm at all to the display or its contents, but the oil jug in my hand is now cracked and oil is starting to drip onto my jacket, shirt and jeans. Without going to the customer service desk to tell them what I had done to the jug of oil ( >>> Why would I?), I go straight to the register, scan the jug, whip out my credit card to pay exactly the $28.99 the register is asking for, and walk out with my leaking jug of oil. In the eyes of some of you, I was just dishonest to Walmart. And for the life of me I cannot figure out why. .
 
Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
I agree 100%. Withholding information was smart in this case, there was zero upside coming clean. What was bad was having stupid help. With regard to the customer, she probably felt she was "entitled" to more than her asking price when she found out what happened. The truth of the matter imo is she was "entitled" to nothing more than what she got, she got her asking price. After the fact she wanted more because of a mistake. Oh well, such is life. The only bad thing here is the bigmouth employee cost the OP a customer, and himself a job. Maybe at his next job he'll let the boss do the talking and do what he was hired to do, and keep his mouth shut. Mistakes are made everyday, and corrected w/o a customer ever knowing, it happens. The correction here was to buy the car. If the car wasn't for sale it would be a different story, but that wasn't the case. The OP was smart and able to think on the fly.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
...Sayjac, again, how do you react when you feel deceived? If you get mad is it your fault?
Again you're missing the point. I 'might' feel deceived which 'might' make me angry to a point. Then I could tell the OP how I feel and tell him I'll be sure to post my displeasure on yelp or someplace similar and tell others. No problem there. However, once one crosses the line and threatens extortion (wanting more money) as plainly noted in OP, that wrong action becomes "her fault", no ifs, ands, or buts. All that said, in my "rational" mind, even 'if' I felt deceived I'd know I didn't have a leg to stand on once I got my asking price and closed the deal. Really after one makes the deal as happened here, that implies satisfaction with it. Depending on how long I had the car for sale, I'd more likely be very happy to have gotten rid of the thing for my asking price. So yeah, if you can't see that now, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
I agree 100%. Withholding information was smart in this case, there was zero upside coming clean. What was bad was having stupid help. With regard to the customer, she probably felt she was "entitled" to more than her asking price when she found out what happened. The truth of the matter imo is she was "entitled" to nothing more than what she got, she got her asking price. After the fact she wanted more because of a mistake. Oh well, such is life. The only bad thing here is the bigmouth employee cost the OP a customer, and himself a job. Maybe at his next job he'll let the boss do the talking and do what he was hired to do, and keep his mouth shut. Mistakes are made everyday, and corrected w/o a customer ever knowing, it happens. The correction here was to buy the car. If the car wasn't for sale it would be a different story, but that wasn't the case. The OP was smart and able to think on the fly.
I Agree. The lines get blurred when rationalizing from a personal to professional level. If we all had a crisis of conscious no one would work for an insurance company.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
I agree 100%. Withholding information was smart in this case, there was zero upside coming clean. What was bad was having stupid help. With regard to the customer, she probably felt she was "entitled" to more than her asking price when she found out what happened. The truth of the matter imo is she was "entitled" to nothing more than what she got, she got her asking price. After the fact she wanted more because of a mistake. Oh well, such is life. The only bad thing here is the bigmouth employee cost the OP a customer, and himself a job. Maybe at his next job he'll let the boss do the talking and do what he was hired to do, and keep his mouth shut. Mistakes are made everyday, and corrected w/o a customer ever knowing, it happens. The correction here was to buy the car. If the car wasn't for sale it would be a different story, but that wasn't the case. The OP was smart and able to think on the fly.
Agreed. Withholding information and lying are two totally different things. But some people just don't like to see how the proverbial sausage is made. It's easy to act high and mighty and pretend to have ethical high ground while being ignorant of the facts around you. Does Amazon disclose how exactly they achieve their "free" prime shipping? Does Walmart disclose how their cheap goods are being made and the conditions of the workers in China? All that information is deliberately being withheld, yet people have no problem with that. Heck, even after that information is made available by other sources, people still want their cheap stuff to be cheap. Ignorance truly is bliss...
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
...Sayjac, again, how do you react when you feel deceived? If you get mad is it your fault?
Again you're missing the point. I 'might' feel deceived which 'might' make me angry to a point. Then I could tell the OP how I feel and tell him I'll be sure to post my displeasure on yelp or someplace similar and tell others. No problem there. However, once one crosses the line and threatens extortion (wanting more money) as plainly noted in OP, that wrong action becomes "her fault", no ifs, ands, or buts. All that said, in my "rational" mind, even 'if' I felt deceived I'd know I didn't have a leg to stand on once I got my asking price and closed the deal. Really after one makes the deal as happened here, that implies satisfaction with it. Depending on how long I had the car for sale, I'd more likely be very happy to have gotten rid of the thing for my asking price. So yeah, if you can't see that now, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I am not missing the point; I am making a point. My point is real simple, at least to me. It started with deception. I never said I agree with her behavior, but I understand it. If you disagree; that's fine. We agree to disagree. Fair enough.
 
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Everyone has made good points. I still think he should have been honest up front. That is just me. Buying the car was good on him, her losing her mind was wrong. It is just a sliding scale of integrity. I am just not used to having that leeway when dealing with submarines.. Everyone has one. I guess it isnt a huge deal, but I would be reluctant to bring my car here. What if it had been a 5000 dollar or 20000 dollar car? What happens then? OP makes good post and seems like a decent guy. I just would have handled it differently.
 
Originally Posted by ndfergy
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
I agree 100%. Withholding information was smart in this case, there was zero upside coming clean. What was bad was having stupid help. With regard to the customer, she probably felt she was "entitled" to more than her asking price when she found out what happened. The truth of the matter imo is she was "entitled" to nothing more than what she got, she got her asking price. After the fact she wanted more because of a mistake. Oh well, such is life. The only bad thing here is the bigmouth employee cost the OP a customer, and himself a job. Maybe at his next job he'll let the boss do the talking and do what he was hired to do, and keep his mouth shut. Mistakes are made everyday, and corrected w/o a customer ever knowing, it happens. The correction here was to buy the car. If the car wasn't for sale it would be a different story, but that wasn't the case. The OP was smart and able to think on the fly.
I Agree. The lines get blurred when rationalizing from a personal to professional level. If we all had a crisis of conscious no one would work for an insurance company.
Exactly!
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by wag123
Withholding information is not dishonest. Withholding information is not lying. ALL of us withhold information for a variety of reasons in a variety of circumstances. None of the people who are criticizing the OP for being dishonest know what it is like being in the service/repair business. There are some people that just can't be made happy no matter what you do for them. I call them two-percenters. Everyone knows somebody who is like this. In the service business, after awhile you begin to recognise these unreasonable individuals after beating your head against the wall a few times and getting nowhere with them. At some point all of us get tired of these customers and try NOT to do business with them. In other words, we don't want their business and we are happy when we are able to "run them off". Life is too short to allow these individuals to ruin your day. Anyone here ever get an outrageous estimate for a repair (any kind of repair, auto, home, appliance, etc)? Maybe YOU are one of the individuals who can never be made happy. This is a way for businesses to NOT do business with you, they are charging you an aggravation fee.
I agree 100%. Withholding information was smart in this case, there was zero upside coming clean. What was bad was having stupid help. With regard to the customer, she probably felt she was "entitled" to more than her asking price when she found out what happened. The truth of the matter imo is she was "entitled" to nothing more than what she got, she got her asking price. After the fact she wanted more because of a mistake. Oh well, such is life. The only bad thing here is the bigmouth employee cost the OP a customer, and himself a job. Maybe at his next job he'll let the boss do the talking and do what he was hired to do, and keep his mouth shut. Mistakes are made everyday, and corrected w/o a customer ever knowing, it happens. The correction here was to buy the car. If the car wasn't for sale it would be a different story, but that wasn't the case. The OP was smart and able to think on the fly.
Agreed. Withholding information and lying are two totally different things. But some people just don't like to see how the proverbial sausage is made. It's easy to act high and mighty and pretend to have ethical high ground while being ignorant of the facts around you. Does Amazon disclose how exactly they achieve their "free" prime shipping? Does Walmart disclose how their cheap goods are being made and the conditions of the workers in China? All that information is deliberately being withheld, yet people have no problem with that. Heck, even after that information is made available by other sources, people still want their cheap stuff to be cheap. Ignorance truly is bliss...
thumbsup It's called business. Keep problems as small is possible. Being totally transparent in situations like this is a fools errand.
 
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