Pennzoil Ultra 5W20
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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A high TBN level does not a good oil make, it's just a high TBN level.
The same could be said of VI.
Very true, just don't tell Caterham that.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
A high TBN level does not a good oil make, it's just a high TBN level.
The same could be said of VI.
Very true, just don't tell Caterham that.
I can't wait to try this stuff out. Right now I have Pennzoil High Mileage in my car for another 1500 miles. By the looks of the VOA it appears that this is a "strong" oil. Really like the TBN, but I am curious to see how long it lasts.
VOA in text format
Code:
Elements PPM
ALUMINUM 0
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 0
COPPER 0
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 44
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 373
SILICON 3
SODIUM 0
CALCIUM 2752
MAGNESIUM 10
PHOSPHORUS 629
ZINC 700
BARIUM 0
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 52.7
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 8.1
Flashpoint in °F 425
Fuel % -
Antifreeze % -
Water % 0.0
Insolubles % TR
TBN 13
TAN
ISO Code
Code:
Elements PPM
ALUMINUM 0
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 0
COPPER 0
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 44
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 373
SILICON 3
SODIUM 0
CALCIUM 2752
MAGNESIUM 10
PHOSPHORUS 629
ZINC 700
BARIUM 0
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C 52.7
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 8.1
Flashpoint in °F 425
Fuel % -
Antifreeze % -
Water % 0.0
Insolubles % TR
TBN 13
TAN
ISO Code
Has anyone noticed the used oil analysis have shown a pretty significant decrease in Boron? I think they watered it down a little because it wasn't selling. I try to buy the oldest stuff I can. I am going to clear out the 10w30 because that is the only grade with the early production dates (around May 2010).
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Haven't even the very earliest PU used oil analysis shown a reduction in Boron compared to virgin Ultra?
I think Boron is one of those additives which will deplete in use. My first UOA with Ultra 5w30 after 6900 miles showed 199ppm of boron, and that batch of Ultra was from the very beginning of production too. I'll have a second UOA this week with my second Ultra run, so it will be interesting to see what the boron level is on that one.
Haven't even the very earliest PU used oil analysis shown a reduction in Boron compared to virgin Ultra?
I think Boron is one of those additives which will deplete in use. My first UOA with Ultra 5w30 after 6900 miles showed 199ppm of boron, and that batch of Ultra was from the very beginning of production too. I'll have a second UOA this week with my second Ultra run, so it will be interesting to see what the boron level is on that one.
You guys are silly looking at detectable metals in the package and making judgements. This not 1977. This package is just marginally improved over cheap Quaker State Conventional, Motorcraft Semi Synthetic or Formula Shell for boron, moly. High CA will just cause high wear initially due to package surface competition. If you dont need a high basenumber oil dont use it. And Base stocks REALLY matter They are the difference between a ho-hum oil and a great oil. Period.
Very True Arco,
Take a look at Valvoline SynPower, 5w-40, SN as an example of GREAT base oil and a lower TBN. IMO...this is fantastic oil for the price and people run it for over 8K in their OCI with low wear numbers and plenty left in the add pack.
There are a lot of very good oils out on the market with exceptional base oils an they don't need a high TBN.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You guys are silly looking at detectable metals in the package and making judgements. This not 1977. This package is just marginally improved over cheap Quaker State Conventional, Motorcraft Semi Synthetic or Formula Shell for boron, moly. High CA will just cause high wear initially due to package surface competition. If you dont need a high basenumber oil dont use it. And Base stocks REALLY matter They are the difference between a ho-hum oil and a great oil. Period.
Take a look at Valvoline SynPower, 5w-40, SN as an example of GREAT base oil and a lower TBN. IMO...this is fantastic oil for the price and people run it for over 8K in their OCI with low wear numbers and plenty left in the add pack.
There are a lot of very good oils out on the market with exceptional base oils an they don't need a high TBN.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You guys are silly looking at detectable metals in the package and making judgements. This not 1977. This package is just marginally improved over cheap Quaker State Conventional, Motorcraft Semi Synthetic or Formula Shell for boron, moly. High CA will just cause high wear initially due to package surface competition. If you dont need a high basenumber oil dont use it. And Base stocks REALLY matter They are the difference between a ho-hum oil and a great oil. Period.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
aaha, so its the boron that gives this oil the extra 35% in cleaning power over PP gotcha!
Not really. Most likely a Boron ester or phosphorylated Boron for AW and FM.
Pennzoil said the boron is for:
Quote:
The function of the boron in Pennzoil Ultra™ formulations is one of protection for non-ferrous metals and sealing materials
Quote:
aaha, so its the boron that gives this oil the extra 35% in cleaning power over PP gotcha!
Not really. Most likely a Boron ester or phosphorylated Boron for AW and FM.
Pennzoil said the boron is for:
Quote:
The function of the boron in Pennzoil Ultra™ formulations is one of protection for non-ferrous metals and sealing materials
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You guys are silly looking at detectable metals in the package and making judgements. This not 1977. This package is just marginally improved over cheap Quaker State Conventional, Motorcraft Semi Synthetic or Formula Shell for boron, moly. High CA will just cause high wear initially due to package surface competition. If you dont need a high basenumber oil dont use it. And Base stocks REALLY matter They are the difference between a ho-hum oil and a great oil. Period.
You called them silly for making judgements and then made judgements yourself! Boron additives are numerous and don't even all serve the same purpose. Some are part of the detergent package as it is with Ultra while other boron additives are for anti-wear. There are several types of moly additives and they perform differently at the same concentration of moly. There is also the matter of synergism and antagonism between additives and even between additives and base oils. It is not a sure thing that the high CA in this oil will increase wear early on. There are way too many other factors involved. Just like with many types of additives there are many different types of calcium-based detergents. The entire formulation determines the anti-wear performance.
You guys are silly looking at detectable metals in the package and making judgements. This not 1977. This package is just marginally improved over cheap Quaker State Conventional, Motorcraft Semi Synthetic or Formula Shell for boron, moly. High CA will just cause high wear initially due to package surface competition. If you dont need a high basenumber oil dont use it. And Base stocks REALLY matter They are the difference between a ho-hum oil and a great oil. Period.
You called them silly for making judgements and then made judgements yourself! Boron additives are numerous and don't even all serve the same purpose. Some are part of the detergent package as it is with Ultra while other boron additives are for anti-wear. There are several types of moly additives and they perform differently at the same concentration of moly. There is also the matter of synergism and antagonism between additives and even between additives and base oils. It is not a sure thing that the high CA in this oil will increase wear early on. There are way too many other factors involved. Just like with many types of additives there are many different types of calcium-based detergents. The entire formulation determines the anti-wear performance.
Really? Still a moot point as the additive type is not apparent in the simple VOA. You may make an assumption that a premium product will utilise advanced packages and this is most likely true. But I am cautioning the guys looking at the metal elements and equating a high ppm of a particular metal = superior package whereas this is not much different PPM wise than the cheapest oils on the market like Quaker State Conventional and Formula Shell. Nothing can be inferred from this other than high Ca will = High TBN. Everything else is assumptions. The oil performance equates to specifications met and actual on road in situ. Proof is in the puddin.
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