^ If going to switch over, good move to do a flush IMO. I did.
PEAK Global lifetime & PEAK Extended life revealed
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I believe that the Global Lifetime is the same type of stuff being used in a lot of semi truck engines. It is labled as ELC and is being marketed by Old World Industries as "Final Charge" for the semi truck market. My semi was shipped with ELC in it. I recently flushed and filled with the Final Charge ELC stuff. It is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, just like the ELC that came with in the truck. Yeah, the earlier types of coolants required additional SCA's over their life, but the new stuff doesn't. It is not 2eha but is OAT. It handles cavitation on cylinder linings better and has a better heat transfer.
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Just finished doing a complete distilled water flush series, using some Prestone Super Flush (sodium citrate), and fill with Peak Long Life coolant. Nissan Altima calls for a change every 2 years or 30k which ever comes first. Drained Prestone AMM EL.
Radiator and recovery tank looked good, Inside radiator looked bright silver/aluminum color. If I knew how to post pictures I'd have started my own thread and would have been proud to.
Funny thing, after AAP coopin and $5 rebate on Peak LL, the~4 gallons of distilled water for flush will end up costing more. Peak LL about 1.75 for a gallon. Nice.
Radiator and recovery tank looked good, Inside radiator looked bright silver/aluminum color. If I knew how to post pictures I'd have started my own thread and would have been proud to.
Funny thing, after AAP coopin and $5 rebate on Peak LL, the~4 gallons of distilled water for flush will end up costing more. Peak LL about 1.75 for a gallon. Nice.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I believe that the Global Lifetime is the same type of stuff being used in a lot of semi truck engines. It is labled as ELC and is being marketed by Old World Industries as "Final Charge" for the semi truck market. My semi was shipped with ELC in it. I recently flushed and filled with the Final Charge ELC stuff. It is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, just like the ELC that came with in the truck. Yeah, the earlier types of coolants required additional SCA's over their life, but the new stuff doesn't. It is not 2eha but is OAT. It handles cavitation on cylinder linings better and has a better heat transfer.
I think Detroit Diesel PowerCool Plus is the same as Old World Final Charge. So, a DD dealer is another source for Final Charge. I am using PowerCool Plus in a MBE906 engine.
I believe that the Global Lifetime is the same type of stuff being used in a lot of semi truck engines. It is labled as ELC and is being marketed by Old World Industries as "Final Charge" for the semi truck market. My semi was shipped with ELC in it. I recently flushed and filled with the Final Charge ELC stuff. It is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, just like the ELC that came with in the truck. Yeah, the earlier types of coolants required additional SCA's over their life, but the new stuff doesn't. It is not 2eha but is OAT. It handles cavitation on cylinder linings better and has a better heat transfer.
I think Detroit Diesel PowerCool Plus is the same as Old World Final Charge. So, a DD dealer is another source for Final Charge. I am using PowerCool Plus in a MBE906 engine.
Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I believe that the Global Lifetime is the same type of stuff being used in a lot of semi truck engines. It is labled as ELC and is being marketed by Old World Industries as "Final Charge" for the semi truck market. My semi was shipped with ELC in it. I recently flushed and filled with the Final Charge ELC stuff. It is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, just like the ELC that came with in the truck. Yeah, the earlier types of coolants required additional SCA's over their life, but the new stuff doesn't. It is not 2eha but is OAT. It handles cavitation on cylinder linings better and has a better heat transfer.
I think Detroit Diesel PowerCool Plus is the same as Old World Final Charge. So, a DD dealer is another source for Final Charge. I am using PowerCool Plus in a MBE906 engine.
I believe you are correct. I know that Fleetguard, Cat, Mack, etc all have a similar product. Delo has this ELC as well. Everyone is putting it in bottles. It is all the same stuff, and darn good stuff at that. Just a matter of finding who is offering it at the best price. The unfortunate thing in all this is that most auto parts outlets, farm stores, etc do not carry the ELC stuff, only the former SCA precharged coolant (at least this is the case for central Iowa). Anyone, at this point in time, almost has to go to a commercial truck dealership or truck stop to find the stuff.
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I believe that the Global Lifetime is the same type of stuff being used in a lot of semi truck engines. It is labled as ELC and is being marketed by Old World Industries as "Final Charge" for the semi truck market. My semi was shipped with ELC in it. I recently flushed and filled with the Final Charge ELC stuff. It is supposed to be good for 600,000 miles, just like the ELC that came with in the truck. Yeah, the earlier types of coolants required additional SCA's over their life, but the new stuff doesn't. It is not 2eha but is OAT. It handles cavitation on cylinder linings better and has a better heat transfer.
I think Detroit Diesel PowerCool Plus is the same as Old World Final Charge. So, a DD dealer is another source for Final Charge. I am using PowerCool Plus in a MBE906 engine.
I believe you are correct. I know that Fleetguard, Cat, Mack, etc all have a similar product. Delo has this ELC as well. Everyone is putting it in bottles. It is all the same stuff, and darn good stuff at that. Just a matter of finding who is offering it at the best price. The unfortunate thing in all this is that most auto parts outlets, farm stores, etc do not carry the ELC stuff, only the former SCA precharged coolant (at least this is the case for central Iowa). Anyone, at this point in time, almost has to go to a commercial truck dealership or truck stop to find the stuff.
It is not all the same stuff,the Cat and Delo ELCs are 2-eha coolants, whereas Final Charge and Powercool PLus are non 2-eha.
Aren't DD and GM closely related? if so, I find it odd that DD's Powercool plus would be non 2-eha unlike the Dexcool?
GM sold off DD to Penske and DD eventually ended up with Daimler-Chrysler. When Daimler sold off Chrysler, Daimler Trucks North America kept DD (also Freightliner, Western Star, Thomasbuilt Buses, Sterling, American LaFrance).
So, now GM has no connection at all with DD. In the late nineties, when GM was developing the Duramax diesel, they used Isuzu diesel expertise since, by that time, GM had severed connections with DD.
So, now GM has no connection at all with DD. In the late nineties, when GM was developing the Duramax diesel, they used Isuzu diesel expertise since, by that time, GM had severed connections with DD.
Then that would explain the Powercool being a "non-dexcool-like" coolant. I wonder if it really could replace Peak Global Lifetime...?
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
The unfortunate thing in all this is that most auto parts outlets, farm stores, etc do not carry the ELC stuff, only the former SCA precharged coolant (at least this is the case for central Iowa). Anyone, at this point in time, almost has to go to a commercial truck dealership or truck stop to find the stuff.
All the local Walmarts carried Final Charge up until this past spring.
They had some serious deals on it at several local stores. I saw it as low as $3/gallon.
The unfortunate thing in all this is that most auto parts outlets, farm stores, etc do not carry the ELC stuff, only the former SCA precharged coolant (at least this is the case for central Iowa). Anyone, at this point in time, almost has to go to a commercial truck dealership or truck stop to find the stuff.
All the local Walmarts carried Final Charge up until this past spring.
They had some serious deals on it at several local stores. I saw it as low as $3/gallon.
My walmart still has final charge. Is it good stuff? Like the Peak Global?
I dislike Peak coolants because the company (Old World Industries) intentionally obfuscates the technical properties of their products. Nevertheless, I have not seen convincing evidence that Peak Long Life coolant contains 2-EHA. The only evidence that I have seen is hearsay quoted from responses by Peak "consultants" to email inquiries. The same "experts" also assert that Mazda FL22 coolant is simply a relabeled Motorcraft product. Anyone that makes such an assertion or believes it knows nothing about the fundamental differences in chemistry between Japanese coolants (CCI P-OAT), North American coolants (conventional green goop and Texaco Dex-cool), and European coolants (BASF G-05 and G-12).
One of the ironies of Peak's obfuscation is that Old World Industries apparently contracts with CCI (the Japanese company that developed P-OAT coolant technology) to manufacture Peak coolants. CCI bought Dow Chemical's aftermarket coolant business in 1998. The Peak coolants (along with Zerex, AMSOil, SuperTech and many private labels) are all packaged in bottles identical to CCI coolants including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant, Honda Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant, Nissan Coolant, Subaru Long Life Coolant, and Mazda Extended Life Coolant Type FL22.
Peak Long Life Coolant may or may not contain 2-EHA but email responses by Peak consultants are not trustworthy.
One of the ironies of Peak's obfuscation is that Old World Industries apparently contracts with CCI (the Japanese company that developed P-OAT coolant technology) to manufacture Peak coolants. CCI bought Dow Chemical's aftermarket coolant business in 1998. The Peak coolants (along with Zerex, AMSOil, SuperTech and many private labels) are all packaged in bottles identical to CCI coolants including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant, Honda Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant, Nissan Coolant, Subaru Long Life Coolant, and Mazda Extended Life Coolant Type FL22.
Peak Long Life Coolant may or may not contain 2-EHA but email responses by Peak consultants are not trustworthy.
Kost USA makes a lot of the ELC coolants. Anyone know which brand names they are manufacturing for?
Originally Posted By: ponderosaTX
I dislike Peak coolants because the company (Old World Industries) intentionally obfuscates the technical properties of their products. Nevertheless, I have not seen convincing evidence that Peak Long Life coolant contains 2-EHA. The only evidence that I have seen is hearsay quoted from responses by Peak "consultants" to email inquiries. The same "experts" also assert that Mazda FL22 coolant is simply a relabeled Motorcraft product. Anyone that makes such an assertion or believes it knows nothing about the fundamental differences in chemistry between Japanese coolants (CCI P-OAT), North American coolants (conventional green goop and Texaco Dex-cool), and European coolants (BASF G-05 and G-12).
One of the ironies of Peak's obfuscation is that Old World Industries apparently contracts with CCI (the Japanese company that developed P-OAT coolant technology) to manufacture Peak coolants. CCI bought Dow Chemical's aftermarket coolant business in 1998. The Peak coolants (along with Zerex, AMSOil, SuperTech and many private labels) are all packaged in bottles identical to CCI coolants including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant, Honda Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant, Nissan Coolant, Subaru Long Life Coolant, and Mazda Extended Life Coolant Type FL22.
Peak Long Life Coolant may or may not contain 2-EHA but email responses by Peak consultants are not trustworthy.
Fl22 is being used by Ford in several new cars, and is sold at dealers. So yes, it is a Ford product...as they are using it and selling it.
Did they develop it? No...FL22 started with Mazda, and I haven't read anything from anyone saying Ford made FL22.
I dislike Peak coolants because the company (Old World Industries) intentionally obfuscates the technical properties of their products. Nevertheless, I have not seen convincing evidence that Peak Long Life coolant contains 2-EHA. The only evidence that I have seen is hearsay quoted from responses by Peak "consultants" to email inquiries. The same "experts" also assert that Mazda FL22 coolant is simply a relabeled Motorcraft product. Anyone that makes such an assertion or believes it knows nothing about the fundamental differences in chemistry between Japanese coolants (CCI P-OAT), North American coolants (conventional green goop and Texaco Dex-cool), and European coolants (BASF G-05 and G-12).
One of the ironies of Peak's obfuscation is that Old World Industries apparently contracts with CCI (the Japanese company that developed P-OAT coolant technology) to manufacture Peak coolants. CCI bought Dow Chemical's aftermarket coolant business in 1998. The Peak coolants (along with Zerex, AMSOil, SuperTech and many private labels) are all packaged in bottles identical to CCI coolants including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant, Honda Long Life Antifreeze/Coolant, Nissan Coolant, Subaru Long Life Coolant, and Mazda Extended Life Coolant Type FL22.
Peak Long Life Coolant may or may not contain 2-EHA but email responses by Peak consultants are not trustworthy.
Fl22 is being used by Ford in several new cars, and is sold at dealers. So yes, it is a Ford product...as they are using it and selling it.
Did they develop it? No...FL22 started with Mazda, and I haven't read anything from anyone saying Ford made FL22.
I am guessing so. Many of the truck fleet operation publications are showing Final Charge as a recommended coolant for those using ELC in commercial truck engines, as well as other coolant brands. I put it in my '06 Cummins ISX and my Jeep Liberty Diesel. Guess I'll find out if it makes the grade.
Originally Posted By: peterdes
My walmart still has final charge. Is it good stuff? Like the Peak Global?
Originally Posted By: peterdes
My walmart still has final charge. Is it good stuff? Like the Peak Global?
Mazda introduced FL22 Extended Life Coolant in the 2005 model year (late in 2004). At about the same time, the other major Japanese auto manufacturers introduced OEM branded, second generation P-OAT coolants, all based on the same proprietary technology from CCI Corporation, the dominant Japanese coolant company. For a full discussion of Japanese P-OAT coolant technology see the ASTM article "Coolant Development in Asia" (available at http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/JAI/PAGES/JAI100368.htm). FL22 is no more a Ford-developed product than is BASF (Glysantin) G-05, which Ford cloned as Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant several years ago.
Japanese P-OAT technology is evidently so superior to North American and European coolant technology for aluminum automobile engines that Ford has quietly switched to using it in the Edge, Flex, Fusion, and Taurus IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. (See http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/quickref/scuc.pdf.) Ford STILL DOES NOT HAVE AN MSDS posted for its FL22 clone (Motorcraft Specialty Green Engine Coolant).
For the record, the "blowing smoke" comment by the Old World Industries "expert" claiming that FL22 was a rebranded Motorcraft coolant was posted in http://www.mazdas247.com forum in July 2007. (See http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-122883.html.) Ford starting using an FL22 clone in Ford models with engines developed jointly with Mazda in January 2009. Ford previously used its G-05 clone in these engines but switched to FL22. Those advocating using G-05 or Peak Global Lifetime as aftermarket replacements for Japanese OEM coolants should take note.
Japanese P-OAT technology is evidently so superior to North American and European coolant technology for aluminum automobile engines that Ford has quietly switched to using it in the Edge, Flex, Fusion, and Taurus IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. (See http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/fad/quickref/scuc.pdf.) Ford STILL DOES NOT HAVE AN MSDS posted for its FL22 clone (Motorcraft Specialty Green Engine Coolant).
For the record, the "blowing smoke" comment by the Old World Industries "expert" claiming that FL22 was a rebranded Motorcraft coolant was posted in http://www.mazdas247.com forum in July 2007. (See http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-122883.html.) Ford starting using an FL22 clone in Ford models with engines developed jointly with Mazda in January 2009. Ford previously used its G-05 clone in these engines but switched to FL22. Those advocating using G-05 or Peak Global Lifetime as aftermarket replacements for Japanese OEM coolants should take note.
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I'm running Peak Long Life right now in my 91 Honda. What's the general concensus here? Flush it, replace with genuine Honda?
The primary issue is: does Peak Long Life contain 2-EHA (the key organic acid in Dex-Cool), which dissolves some plastics. I don't know; I have not found convincing evidence one way or the other. The MSDS for Peak Long Life is indistinguishable from that for Peak Global Lifetime (which Peak advertises as 2-EHA-free). But the MSDS does not disclose much information, so it is possible that Peak Long Life contains 2-EHA.
A secondary issue is the fact that neither Peak Long Life or Peak Global Lifetime contain any phosphates which provide corrosion protection in some situations where a pure organic acid additive package does not.
On the other hand, if I owned a 91 Honda, I probably would not worry about either of these issues. The Peak coolants are aluminum friendly and do not contain any silicates, which is the biggest hazard in using aftermarket coolants in Japanese cars.
If you are planning to keep your 91 Honda indefinitely (100K miles or more?), then I would ditch the Peak coolant and replace it with ANY Japanese OEM 2nd generation P-OAT coolant. AFAIK, all of the CCI second generation P-OAT automobile coolants are essentially the same. Toyota Super Long Life is perhaps the cheapest in most markets.
A secondary issue is the fact that neither Peak Long Life or Peak Global Lifetime contain any phosphates which provide corrosion protection in some situations where a pure organic acid additive package does not.
On the other hand, if I owned a 91 Honda, I probably would not worry about either of these issues. The Peak coolants are aluminum friendly and do not contain any silicates, which is the biggest hazard in using aftermarket coolants in Japanese cars.
If you are planning to keep your 91 Honda indefinitely (100K miles or more?), then I would ditch the Peak coolant and replace it with ANY Japanese OEM 2nd generation P-OAT coolant. AFAIK, all of the CCI second generation P-OAT automobile coolants are essentially the same. Toyota Super Long Life is perhaps the cheapest in most markets.
Originally Posted By: ponderosaTX
The primary issue is: does Peak Long Life contain 2-EHA (the key organic acid in Dex-Cool), which dissolves some plastics. I don't know; I have not found convincing evidence one way or the other. The MSDS for Peak Long Life is indistinguishable from that for Peak Global Lifetime (which Peak advertises as 2-EHA-free). But the MSDS does not disclose much information, so it is possible that Peak Long Life contains 2-EHA.
A secondary issue is the fact that neither Peak Long Life or Peak Global Lifetime contain any phosphates which provide corrosion protection in some situations where a pure organic acid additive package does not.
On the other hand, if I owned a 91 Honda, I probably would not worry about either of these issues. The Peak coolants are aluminum friendly and do not contain any silicates, which is the biggest hazard in using aftermarket coolants in Japanese cars.
If you are planning to keep your 91 Honda indefinitely (100K miles or more?), then I would ditch the Peak coolant and replace it with ANY Japanese OEM 2nd generation P-OAT coolant. AFAIK, all of the CCI second generation P-OAT automobile coolants are essentially the same. Toyota Super Long Life is perhaps the cheapest in most markets.
Excellent info, thanks! I will run the Peak (installed last fall) until the end of this driving season, then flush it out and replace it with oem Honda coolant before putting the car into storage for the winter.
The primary issue is: does Peak Long Life contain 2-EHA (the key organic acid in Dex-Cool), which dissolves some plastics. I don't know; I have not found convincing evidence one way or the other. The MSDS for Peak Long Life is indistinguishable from that for Peak Global Lifetime (which Peak advertises as 2-EHA-free). But the MSDS does not disclose much information, so it is possible that Peak Long Life contains 2-EHA.
A secondary issue is the fact that neither Peak Long Life or Peak Global Lifetime contain any phosphates which provide corrosion protection in some situations where a pure organic acid additive package does not.
On the other hand, if I owned a 91 Honda, I probably would not worry about either of these issues. The Peak coolants are aluminum friendly and do not contain any silicates, which is the biggest hazard in using aftermarket coolants in Japanese cars.
If you are planning to keep your 91 Honda indefinitely (100K miles or more?), then I would ditch the Peak coolant and replace it with ANY Japanese OEM 2nd generation P-OAT coolant. AFAIK, all of the CCI second generation P-OAT automobile coolants are essentially the same. Toyota Super Long Life is perhaps the cheapest in most markets.
Excellent info, thanks! I will run the Peak (installed last fall) until the end of this driving season, then flush it out and replace it with oem Honda coolant before putting the car into storage for the winter.
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