Peak Final Charge Pro-Series for Kubota?

[Fredward]

Hey, guys. I have a bunch of equipment maintenance to do this fall, and I'm going to start stocking up on fluids and filters. I've been using Peak Final Charge Global in my Kubota M7060 and two RTV-X900s. I do a radiator drain-and-fill every 2 years. I've never done an actual flush.

When I started checking prices and looking up products, I noticed that Final Charge Global isn't being stocked by Wal-Mart or any of the usual auto parts stores in my area. I started reading up, and it seems Global is being phased out in favor of Pro-Series. I can still buy the Global Concentrate on Amazon for a reasonable price, but I'm not sure if I should just go ahead and make the switch to Pro-Series.

I've pulled up the spec sheets on both coolants, and both products claim to be compatible with ALL heavy-duty diesel, gasoline, and natural gas engines. Global explicitly claims to be Kubota compatible while Pro-Series does not. Global is nitrate-, phosphate-, silicate-, borate-, and 2-EHA-free. Pro-Series only claims to be nitrate-, and 2-EHA-free. However, I've read that phosphated coolants tend to be desirable for Asian engines, as long as they aren't mixed with hard water. On the other hand, I've read that silicates can cause problems due to deposits and scaling, and that Asian manufactures tend to recommend against them.

I've gone through previous threads on Kubota coolants, here and on other forums. The consensus seems to be that they aren't too picky. They don't have sleeves or use unusual metals or seals. Kubota gives very vague coolant recommendations. "Ethylene Glycol Long-Life Coolant" is about the jist of it. So, what do you guys think? Should I buy some Global concentrate online, or just switch over to Pro-Series, which I can pick up at local retailers? Which do you guys think would be better? If I switch to Pro-Series, is it fine to do another drain-and-fill, or do I really need to perform a flush?

 

[Coolant Kid]

I'm not a fan of the PRO's composition, I would say avoid it. I find it intriguing that the silicated PRO has a longer service life (1.5 million miles) compared to the silicate-free Global. Silicates are really something to be avoided and it's weird to me that they're making a comeback in the coolant industry with these new PSi-OAT formulations. Silicates create a thermal blanket in the cooling system and heat transfer is compromised, permanently because it's dang near impossible to get the stuff flushed completely out safely. If you examine the descriptions again, you'll see that Global mentions superior heat transfer for engines that have EGR/SCR, while PRO makes no mention of it. Global is the superior product here.

 

[nwjones18]

For what its worth I've had the standard Prestone All vehicles 10yr/300k in my Kubota since 2020 with no issues. I did a full flush with distilled water and converted it over. No issues to report and the 2-EHA hasn't turned anything to jelly so far as I can tell.. Why do a drain/fill every 2 years with a long life coolant?? I think you'll be fine with either coolant choice and that the internet is right.. Kubota's aren't picky.

 

[doitmyself]

It sounds like you have good feelings using your current Global. If your only decision point at this moment is easy availability at Walmart, etc., my decision would be to stick with the Global for now and develop a plan in case Global should disappear in the future. Easy, peasy - put your mind to rest on this topic.

In my quick search, I can still get Global locally at Oreilly's, NAPA, AutoZone, and Advanced Auto. Mail order from Amazon or Zoro are easy options also.

Another reason to stay with Global is that you won't have to do a thorough flush - I think most here agree that its best to do a total flush when changing coolant chemistries. My workplace tractors accumulate low annual hours (120 +/-) and

I use John Deere Cool Gard II in all my workplace tractors to avoid analysis paralysis. These tractors accumulate low annual hours (120 +/-) and I extend the change interval to 4 years.

 

[johnmyster]

Silicates are really something to be avoided and it's weird to me that they're making a comeback in the coolant industry with these new PSi-OAT formulations.

I've read somewhere it was cost. Pro being a cheaper formulation to produce.

Pro is in my cummins pickup. It'll be changed at no more than 5 years and 50k miles. Perhaps it gets a citric acid flush at that time. If silicate fallout becomes an issue the water pump will let me know, maybe. Or maybe I get to chase heater core issues instead.

To the OP, my impression is that they are cross compatible so I would not be concerned about transitioning gradually via spill and fill. My NAPA regularly has deep discounts/sales on case quantities of the Peak HD coolants. $12/gal for 50/50 and $17/gal concentrate seems to be bottom dollar.

https://www.owi.com/binaries/conten...-documents/hdaw-2023/peak-hd-afc-brochure.pdf

 

[Clarkbug]

I'm not a fan of the PRO's composition, I would say avoid it. I find it intriguing that the silicated PRO has a longer service life (1.5 million miles) compared to the silicate-free Global. Silicates are really something to be avoided and it's weird to me that they're making a comeback in the coolant industry with these new PSi-OAT formulations. Silicates create a thermal blanket in the cooling system and heat transfer is compromised, permanently because it's dang near impossible to get the stuff flushed completely out safely. If you examine the descriptions again, you'll see that Global mentions superior heat transfer for engines that have EGR/SCR, while PRO makes no mention of it. Global is the superior product here.

Can I ask what you don't like about the pro? How do you feel about the Prestone Command Non-Nitrite?

I have another thread where I was asking about a Kubota safe coolant but also looking to use for other vehicles and equipment that I have. So this is timely.

 

[Coolant Kid]

The silicates, that is what I don't like. It may also contain borates, which is another no-no in the cooling system. It's like PRO has taken us backwards several generations. We have inhibitors that were problematic in the past and phased away, but now coming back for who knows why.

I'll raise several eyebrows here, but GM really got things right with Dexcool. The stuff is even used in all their diesel engines, with no additional additives needed. And all without the problematic inhibitors of the past like silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrates, nitrites and amines. This is why I've said before, all we really need are cheap Dexclones, for everything. Don't waste time or money on HD coolants, Asian formulas, Euro formulas or anything else the industry was us to believe is necessary.

Prestone Command Nitrite-Free is fine. It's similar to Peak's new All Vehicles Antifreeze Coolant (the cheapest one), in that they both contain a unique cocktail of both potassium 2EHA and sodium 2EHA. Double down on 2EHA? Works for me, I love the stuff.

 

[Clarkbug]

Prestone Command Nitrite-Free is fine. It's similar to Peak's new All Vehicles Antifreeze Coolant (the cheapest one), in that they both contain a unique cocktail of both potassium 2EHA and sodium 2EHA. Double down on 2EHA? Works for me, I love the stuff.

Ok, so honestly question, not trolling or baiting or anything. I just really don't know my coolant lingo yet.

https://www.prestone.com/product/pr...eeze-coolant/afc13000-13100_infosheet_pa1987/

That was the coolant I was asking about previously. I guess I should have mentioned the ELC portion of it, my bad. According to the heading at the top it says that it's non-2EH. I assumed that's the same as 2EHA, right?

 

[johnmyster]

The silicates, that is what I don't like. It may also contain borates, which is another no-no in the cooling system. It's like PRO has taken us backwards several generations. We have inhibitors that were problematic in the past and phased away, but now coming back for who knows why.

I'll raise several eyebrows here, but GM really got things right with Dexcool. The stuff is even used in all their diesel engines, with no additional additives needed. And all without the problematic inhibitors of the past like silicates, phosphates, borates, nitrates, nitrites and amines. This is why I've said before, all we really need are cheap Dexclones, for everything. Don't waste time or money on HD coolants, Asian formulas, Euro formulas or anything else the industry was us to believe is necessary.

Prestone Command Nitrite-Free is fine. It's similar to Peak's new All Vehicles Antifreeze Coolant (the cheapest one), in that they both contain a unique cocktail of both potassium 2EHA and sodium 2EHA. Double down on 2EHA? Works for me, I love the stuff.

CK,

Honest question. It seems in modern times we have increased occurrence of heater core plugging. FCA vehicles, honda, etc. Is this a function of modern heater core construction and/or extended coolant change intervals (lifetime, neglect, etc) and if so, is there a particular coolant composition that is at fault?

Regarding the use of Dexcool in GM diesels - the classic duramax did occasionally suffer from oil cooler failure, egr cooler failure, or head gasket failure. Not that any of those things were necessarily preventable via coolant choice, but worth noting. Also, Dexcool's sufficiency in the duramax without SCA for cavitation control has more to do with the duramax not being wet liner construction.

 

[Fredward]

Thanks for the replies and advice, guys. It's much appreciated.

@Coolant Kid - You're not the first person I've seen speculating the the Pro-Series formulation is mostly a cost cutting measure. It really does seem like they just wanted to be able to use the cheaper old school mineral additives. Silicates in particular seem like they should be avoided, considering the whole point of them is to leave deposits behind. I'm going to stick to Global for now. If they ever pull it off the market completely I'll look at offerings from other brands.

@nwjones18 - It's good to know they do fine on Prestone All Vehicle. I'm probably overthinking this. My manual calls for a complete flush and change every 2 years, so I figured I could get away with a radiator spill-and-fill with a quality coolant instead. It may still be excessive, though. I put ~150 hours a year on my machines.

@doitmyself - I'm glad you said something. I checked again, and the NAPA closest to me still has Global in stock, and it's on sale. $15.39 for 50/50 and $20.99 for concentrate. I'll go pick up some jugs tomorrow. Like you said, it's easier for me to just stick with Global.

@johnmyster - I checked around again and my local NAPA still has Global in stock, and it's on sale right now. That makes it an easy choice.

@Clarkbug - Yeah, 2EH, 2-EH, 2EHA, and 2-EHA all refer to 2-ethylhexanoic acid in the context of engine coolants. It's an effective metal corrosion inhibitor, but it's been known to eat hoses and seals. I think most modern engines use polymers and silicones that are resistant to it nowadays, though.