I said the government shouldn't tell you what you have to do. Not what you can't do.
Parking lots for Solar Energy?
- Thread starter buster
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JHZR2
Staff member
I to think solar parking is great. I think we have too big of trees on the ideal direction, otherwise I’d be inclined to install this in my driveway for the very reason you mention.
I think this one screen shot from the presentation is unique in that this amazing development has taken off in our lifetime. Something to tell your grandchildren.
They have size the mains such that for that inconvenient 60+% of the time there has to be enough capacity to feed in enough juice for all the spaces charging with no local solar.
Yes nice to have it on the roof and makes sense, but no material advantage to piping it.
What is the benefit of a covered parking lot without solar panels?
Solar map. You can judge yourself where the parking lots should be covered. Add a snow map and there is a better picture.
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It would take 60 panels (340W each) on a sunny summer day to get you 60Kw of power, with conversion losses that should be enough to get a model 3 to 50% before the Sun goes down.
Not saying it is a totally bad idea, just saying general people have no idea just how much energy an EV battery holds and how little energy a big solar panel makes. There could be a theoretical savings of gasoline if the vehicles remained cooler in the Summer.
Solar is making the ccp happy.
Ok. Let’s do the math.
I recommend a slow charge scenario where the output is 120 V and 2000 watts. Depending where you are, say California, that would require 120 square square ft. of panels.
Let’s just use the parking space for an individual vehicle. Later we could add the driving lanes.
An average parking space in the USA is 8 ft wide and 16 feet long. Someone can give me better numbers if you think that is too large.
The area dedicated to that vehicle is 16 x 8 ft which equals 128 square ft.
A parking lot system will slow charge Every Vehicle if they were all EV’s and parked there.
Please submit ideas or other ways of working out the math.
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Yes, it's maddening.
On one hand, we get enough energy from the sunlight that hits the earth to have all the energy we need with a small percentage of the surface covered. This certainly makes Solar very tempting.
HOWEVER, on the other hand, we are no where near able to get a high enough percentage of that energy from current solar tech.
Unless there is some breakthrough where solar panels are an order of magnitude or two more efficient, solar is not yet ready to power the whole show.
But knowing how much energy we receive makes it a tempting option. It does deserve more development as there is potential if we can make far more efficient panels.
Sarcasm?
Why would it need to charge a dead EV to be viable? Obviously the parking lot would have some empty spaces, some ICE, and EV's would be at various states of charge. There are more pressing reasons to have covered parking in the desert southwest other than solar which is why you often see it.
The Perfect Solution Fallacy runs strong through BITOG.
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Considering the average shopper spends 30-45 minutes in a store, those slow chargers would essentially be a waste of resources.
It takes 10 hours of charging to get 20-50 miles of range per JD Power.
The slowest, Level 1 equipment, provides charging through a common residential 120-volt (120V) AC outlet. Level 1 chargers can take 40-50 hours to charge a battery electric vehicle (BEV) from empty.
You are correct about the shopper, unless it was a large mall and folks were in there for a few hours. I have to admit I was thinking more of working situation where the car sits in the company parking lot. However, its not really fair to expect fully charging your vehicle while shopping. Even with the work situation its more of a top up to get back home. People keep going back to the situation where you drive into a gas station and " Fill it up".
That's just not the way it works with EV charging and even less with solar EV charging. IMHO. Not looking for an argument.
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And the simple mindset is strong with others I see.
You do understand that such a solar array would be connected to the grid right? It will not be charging EVs directly. And since it’s connected to the grid, the grid dictates what happens. If it’s down or struggling, like this summer in CA, that parking lot will not be charging anything.
On the other hand, if it can charge EVs directly, then it requires a whole lot more than just panels. Batteries, inverters, because not all EVs can take DC, controllers to distribute the load equally and I’m sure there is more. When you add it all up, is it really worth the hassle?
Shade?
Point being I’m failing to understand how a covered parking lot without solar panels has anything to do with this conversation.
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I agree about the full charge and wasn't expecting a full charge. I am just pointing out the numbers from a quick online search. And those figures I posted are peak output on a clear sunny day; without clouds and of course not at night. And then, in about half of the nation, their latitude would only allow for any meaningful charge for about 6-8 months out of the year.
The biggest illusion with solar is that it is clean. The second illusion is that it is somehow energy dense. We just simply cannot generate enough E with Solar Panels and current tech to outpace the energy density and usage of fossil fuels or Nuclear. Or even newer wind tech. SF6 and NF3 are 2 greenhouse gasses which are about 25k and 13k worse than CO2 respectively and both are released when manufacturing batteries, wires, LCD screens, semi-conductors, and other 'green' materials. Then there is the mining of the raw materials (batteries and solar) and of course the sourcing of those materials comes mainly from China, Russia, and the Dem Rep of the Congo. There are smaller reserves in other areas, like Canada and Australia, but their total resources aren't even close to meeting current demand let alone expected demand in 15 years.
I am all for forward movement/progress. I just see solar as a fool's errand that will set us back and hinder progress on more fruitful fronts.
As I posted earlier in this thread, to meet Biden's 2050 goal of Carbon emissions and renewable energy, we would need an area the size of 4 South Dakotas. So who buys the land? Who buys the equipment? who is giving up their land? what land use is given up? etc.
EV charging stations themselves are currently incredibly expensive. Level 2 and level 3 chargers can currently cost tens of thousands of dollars to purchase and install. Each. And of course, we don't have the grid to support them right now as California found out. CA projects an energy shortfall, annually through 2025 which, by their own estimates, could leave 1.2 million people without power. And that is before the 2026 mandate of 35% of new cars being EV. So we need to increase and strengthen the grid. I just don't see Solar doing this. I also see EV's as a distraction to the actual problem.
https://timesofsandiego.com/busines...of-1700-megawatt-power-shortfall-this-summer/
"One megawatt is about enough electricity to power 750 California homes. In 2025, the state will still have a capacity shortfall of about 1,800 MW, according to officials from the California Energy Commission, Public Utilities Commission, California Independent System Operator and Newsom's office."
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For anything about the blue line, Fogetaboutit. Having said that there are still some solar farms on scrub land in Alberta only a Texan would buy.
My point is the addition of solar panels is not such a large leap for areas of the US which are already well acquainted with the concept of using covered parking (not parking garages) to mitigate extreme heat.
Obviously implementation matters. It's only a hassle if your area doesn't already use covered parking because of the heat. For areas like the SW US it's a no brainer.
Besides nobody says it MUST be used to charge an EV. It could be used to charge batteries which could help offset early evening peak demand.
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