Parents are thinking about a new car.

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
Can they afford a CRV hybrid?

I looked at that. No standard AWD(since I might have privileges to borrow the car for Tahoe), and my parents don't seem like Honda people.

They know a salesman at a Subaru dealer, I know people at the local Toyota(parts) and Honda(sales and service advisor/manager) dealer.


The CRV Hybrid does have AWD standard

The gas engine drives the front wheels, while the electric motor drives the rear wheels

 

[WhyMe]

Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by WhyMe
my mom loves her 2017 CRV and have had no issues with it. gets 30 mpg mixed . the EX trim has all the good safety features. resale is also good on them.

That 1.5T is kinda unnerving for me - my family keeps cars beyond 10 years. I drove a newer CR-V when The Critic dropped off a care package to my apartment. I do like how they drive and Honda Sensing does feel pretty transparent.

The new PCM and climate control update from what he told me is an effort to fix the fuel dilution on the L15Ts.


my mom has not had any issues with hers. there are a metric ton of them in the PNW . i personally know 5 people that have the new CRV and they have had no issues . i am not a honda fan boy .

on the durabilty of the 1.5 , its been out since 2015 i believe. i have not read of any issues. every time i drive mom CRV i am really amazed at the power for such a small engine

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
I'm going to zig where others have zagged and suggest a Buick Regal TourX...


There's always one...

The car that's going to be discontinued.............................

Maybe they should just buy a Crown Vic..................

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
I'm going to zig where others have zagged and suggest a Buick Regal TourX...


There's always one...

The car that's going to be discontinued.............................

Maybe they should just buy a Crown Vic..................



I say take them to see a few different options and see which they like best. They may find that the ergonomics/ease of use of one vehicle outweighs any potential differences in fuel economy.

And if I may be a little facetious...

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by Skippy722


I say take them to see a few different options and see which they like best. They may find that the ergonomics/ease of use of one vehicle outweighs any potential differences in fuel economy.


I told them tonight(I had to make a unplanned visit due to a dying cat) to give the RAV4, CR-V and Forester a spin and see what they think.

And my mom is open to the CR-V as of tonight.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted by nthach
Supposedly the later FB25s have the oil consumption fixed. How's the MPG on those? I know a friend gets 28-30mpg on his 2012 Fozzie with crossbars installed, it goes down to 22-25mpg with a ski rack installed. Any other issues with that generation of Outback/Forester besides the rings and CVT?


If this helps, I drive a 2014 outback 2.5 with 75K miles. No issues with rings, CVT (which performs well by the way) or head gaskets. The roof rack cross bars fold into the side bars which helps the MPG slightly. MPG is very sensitive to carrying bulky items on the roof rack, as well as severe stop and go traffic in crowded urban areas. I have taken a half dozen 2,400 mile round trips back and forth between NY and Florida at 75-80 MPH speeds with a bunch of items on the roof rack. MPG not great on those trips, but the vehicle has performed flawlessly.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by kasone
More internet searching turned up the term "ghostwalking" and that the alignment was the problem.


I'm not saying you don't have some problem going on with your car, but in well over 13 years of Subaru ownership and probably tens of thousands of board posts, I don't recall ever seeing a Forester with a true "ghostwalking" issue. This was essentially contained to the Outback due to a hasty lifting of the multi-link Legacy rear suspension in the early 2000s, and that suspension was not shared by any other Subaru models outside of the Legacy and Outback. The root cause was the addition of roughly one large adult (200+ pounds or so) would cause the rear suspension to droop and the toe-in to change to toe-out when bouncing up and down. This would then force the rear end to want to change directions since it was essentially a form of rear steering, and several people with bad alignments and icy/snowy conditions had issues. The fix was a change to the 2007 Outback alignment specs, which suggested adding a 200+ pound weight in the trunk and then setting the rear toe-in slightly different.

I would find a shop that specializes in alignments and take it to them; because you say it's been aligned, and because you've changed tires, and because it does it even on regular wet pavement (not icy/snowy), my bet is something is either bent, broken/disconnected, or otherwise still out of alignment. Do you know if the vehicle was involved in an accident prior to your purchase?

And, that tech that said "All Foresters do that" obviously needs to be stripped of any certs he has, because he doesn't know his anal sphincter from a hole in the ground. It's always been Outbacks, and only Outbacks with the ghostwalking issue. And even more specifically, only the 2004-2009 model. Best of luck fixing your issue, as it's not a common one.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
just point out that it's designed and built in Germany.


So, the maintenance will cost 4x vs any other manufacturer, and even if you have all the maintenance done by the dealer to the correct schedule, you better lease it and get rid of it as soon as the lease is up? Otherwise you might pound the rod bearings out of it, or have sludge issues or timing chain problems as well since it seems German cars, for all their fancy engineering, suffer some pretty abysmal failures and incredibly expensive maintenance procedures. I'm pretty sure that's not a positive selling point. Plus, dead models from across the pond doesn't bode well for those who need replacement parts down the road...

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by kasone
More internet searching turned up the term "ghostwalking" and that the alignment was the problem.


I'm not saying you don't have some problem going on with your car, but in well over 13 years of Subaru ownership and probably tens of thousands of board posts, I don't recall ever seeing a Forester with a true "ghostwalking" issue. This was essentially contained to the Outback due to a hasty lifting of the multi-link Legacy rear suspension in the early 2000s, and that suspension was not shared by any other Subaru models outside of the Legacy and Outback. The root cause was the addition of roughly one large adult (200+ pounds or so) would cause the rear suspension to droop and the toe-in to change to toe-out when bouncing up and down. This would then force the rear end to want to change directions since it was essentially a form of rear steering, and several people with bad alignments and icy/snowy conditions had issues. The fix was a change to the 2007 Outback alignment specs, which suggested adding a 200+ pound weight in the trunk and then setting the rear toe-in slightly different.


I would find a shop that specializes in alignments and take it to them; because you say it's been aligned, and because you've changed tires, and because it does it even on regular wet pavement (not icy/snowy), my bet is something is either bent, broken/disconnected, or otherwise still out of alignment. Do you know if the vehicle was involved in an accident prior to your purchase?

And, that tech that said "All Foresters do that" obviously needs to be stripped of any certs he has, because he doesn't know his anal sphincter from a hole in the ground. It's always been Outbacks, and only Outbacks with the ghostwalking issue. And even more specifically, only the 2004-2009 model. Best of luck fixing your issue, as it's not a common one.

This was also an issue in the previous generation Forester, mainly in snow. There are lots of posts about it on subaruforester.org and it was mainly remedied with an alignment.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
it seems German cars, for all their fancy engineering, suffer some pretty abysmal failures and incredibly expensive maintenance procedures. I'm pretty sure that's not a positive selling point. Plus, dead models from across the pond doesn't bode well for those who need replacement parts down the road...

I just helped a friend replace a bad timing chain tensioner on her VW Eos and while the act of replacing the timing drive wasn't terrible, there was a lot of [censored] moments - TTY bolts and how complicated the design was and one part takes out the whole engine. The Germans seem to engineer for engineering's sake to the detriment of long-term reliability and to a point serviceability. While you can get OEM-level parts for a older Mercedes, those seem to be more an exception than a rule. Automakers are only obligated to stock parts until the warranty period for a model run is over.

I dunno about how GM treats parts stock - but given that the Regal TourX is a Opel product(so is the Cascada), GM is only obligated to buy enough from Opel(which is under Peugeot control now) to cover 10 years of the last Regal/Cascadas brought over. You can't find OE Saab parts, ditto for the rest of GM's orphan brands. The Chevy SS will also be in a parts quagmire - Holden doesn't build cars in Oz anymore and there might be enough sheet metal and parts commonality with other GM products(good thing there's an LSx in it), the unique parts for it are in finite supply.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by bluesubie
This was also an issue in the previous generation Forester, mainly in snow. There are lots of posts about it on subaruforester.org and it was mainly remedied with an alignment.


blue, my point was any of the other issues like you reference, the root cause is poor alignment, and not truly the "ghostwalking" issue... that's an engineering issue. The ghostwalking on the Outback came about because Subaru engineers raised the Legacy multi-link suspension roughly 2" without really verifying there were no adverse effects to the geometry and/or suspension alignment throughout the range of motion, and that's what reared it's ugly head. There are some ways to combat this phenomenon, but all of the "fixes" include replacing some of the OEM parts- stiffer springs, stiffer rollbars, etc.

I'm fairly sure that any vehicle that requires a full 4-wheel alignment is likely subject to the same caveats as the Forester with wheels pointing any which way.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by Imp4
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
I'm going to zig where others have zagged and suggest a Buick Regal TourX...


There's always one...

The car that's going to be discontinued.............................

Maybe they should just buy a Crown Vic..................


The TourX is one of the best cars in it's class and generally superior to almost every crossover in any area save perhaps MPG vs hybrids.

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
just point out that it's designed and built in Germany.


So, the maintenance will cost 4x vs any other manufacturer, and even if you have all the maintenance done by the dealer to the correct schedule, you better lease it and get rid of it as soon as the lease is up? Otherwise you might pound the rod bearings out of it, or have sludge issues or timing chain problems as well since it seems German cars, for all their fancy engineering, suffer some pretty abysmal failures and incredibly expensive maintenance procedures. I'm pretty sure that's not a positive selling point. Plus, dead models from across the pond doesn't bode well for those who need replacement parts down the road...


It's a Buick that uses an Ecotec engine you can find in literally millions of other GM cars, a transmission you can find in even more millions of cars from GM, Lexus, Toyota, BMW, Volvo and Volkswagen, and shares a platform with basically everything GM makes that isn't a truck or Corvette.

Parts availability will be fine, and even the most shadetree of mechanics should be able to fix and maintain one of GMs most common engines.

Only the body parts could be an issue, but GM is firstly required to maintain 10 years of stock on them and secondly, the aftermarket exists, and makes body panels.

 

[ondarvr]

Long time Subaru owner, they've been the most costly vehicles I've owned ( I don't buy German cars).

I like them, but repairs can be expensive.

RAV4s and CRVs have been excellent options.

Escapes and CX5s too.

I went with a CRV for my wife, got rid of the Subaru, she liked it, but I'd already put enough money into it.

Ghostwalking is something many AWD vehicles can experience if the alignment is right. Most alignment techs don't know enough to solve it by making the correct adjustments.

 

[WylieCoyote]

Definitely think about the future when car shopping for 60+ year olds. Crossovers are the way to go, whether it be a Forester or CR-V. Getting up and down out of a Prius (the car they miss) will eventually become difficult, or impossible, in my Dad's case. Mom just bought a Tuscon, and it's very much step in, step out for the mobility-impaired.

 

[kasone]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post about 2016 Subaru Forester "ghostwalking".

I would agree with some of your comments about alignment. I have had the alignment checked at least 3 times each time with a different Subaru technician.

After my visit where the mechanic told me that "all Foresters do that", when I picked up my car, I considered trading in my car for a newer model. I asked the service manager about which cars did not do this and she told me that the 2018 Outback, Crosstrek, and Forester all had this issue. I also do not understand why she would tell the service writer to take down all of my alignment numbers and send them to the Subaru zone rep. Sounds to me like they know that there is a problem with at least some of their cars and are gathering information. I have found at least 2 other Forester owners in Michigan that have either posted about this issue. I contacted one of them via email. He bought his car new from another dealer that the one that I have had experience with. He was not satisfied and told me that Subaru was of no help and that his problem was unresolved.

In my opinion, I have a car that my wife is afraid to drive,
I do not want to sell it to someone else and give them problems,
and I will not be buying another one of Subaru's cars.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by bluesubie
This was also an issue in the previous generation Forester, mainly in snow. There are lots of posts about it on subaruforester.org and it was mainly remedied with an alignment.


blue, my point was any of the other issues like you reference, the root cause is poor alignment, and not truly the "ghostwalking" issue... that's an engineering issue. The ghostwalking on the Outback came about because Subaru engineers raised the Legacy multi-link suspension roughly 2" without really verifying there were no adverse effects to the geometry and/or suspension alignment throughout the range of motion, and that's what reared it's ugly head. There are some ways to combat this phenomenon, but all of the "fixes" include replacing some of the OEM parts- stiffer springs, stiffer rollbars, etc.

I'm fairly sure that any vehicle that requires a full 4-wheel alignment is likely subject to the same caveats as the Forester with wheels pointing any which way.

Ah ok. Sounds like someone on the Forester forum stole the term for the alignment issue.

Subaru has definitely stepped up their game with the new platform though. My Outback was the first Subaru that I've driven on it and I continue to be impressed.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
Definitely think about the future when car shopping for 60+ year olds. Getting up and down out of a Prius (the car they miss) will eventually become difficult, or impossible, in my Dad's case.

Good point - their current Sienna is great for them to get in and out of. A friend's mom tried out a Outback for size and she found it difficult, granted she did have a hip replacement.

That's why I suggested test driving them before making a decision, I think I will handle getting a few "bids" outside of finance and credit checks for them.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
Definitely think about the future when car shopping for 60+ year olds. Crossovers are the way to go, whether it be a Forester or CR-V. Getting up and down out of a Prius (the car they miss) will eventually become difficult, or impossible, in my Dad's case. Mom just bought a Tuscon, and it's very much step in, step out for the mobility-impaired.

Well, as a twist my mom is suddenly wanting a Prius for MPG, and she found a fully-loaded 2016 for $18K at the local Toyota dealer - probably priced to lure an potential Uber driver through the door. My concern with the Prius is future oil consumption/head gaskets and brake actuator(which Toyota issued a "recall" for both the 2nd and 3rd generation models).

I did bring up the accessibility issue - and seeing how they do drive a fair bit safety in a crash. We'll see. As of now, she's piqued in a Forester - it does get slightly better MPG than a RAV4 Hybrid. The Prius is still on the table, she's going to call a family friend who happens to be a Subaru salesman about a test drive of a Forester.