Paper/Gauze/Foam? Which one is best?

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Impressive video. I like the point about all three flow more air than your engine can use, so dirt stopping is the prime factor to consider when buying a filter. I don't like having to wash a filter though, so I am inclined to not go with True Flo, and I already pulled the K&Ns as near-impossible to properly re-oil as well as letting too much dirt in. So the one thing missing from this test is the oiled paper filters like Fram Tough Guard. Would love to see how Tough Guard performs in his test.
 
I use Unifilter... and give it a clean only when I want to (mostly never). That's because when I check it it's always clean... or nearly so. Even when I go out in the desert in the worst kind of dirt there is (the ultra fine bulldust). So... if you hate cleaning filters this is the filter for you.

Actually it's fairly easy to clean most of the Unifilters (with a solvent not with soap & water... which is harder)... so when I do clean them I don't usually mind. The key thing is to use a good filter oil. To date I haven't found anything better than the Unifilter oil... which remains an oil even after prolonged use, remains in the filter even after prolonged use and has special tackiness additives that really do seem to work.

I would have liked to see Unifilter tested in that video... as they design all their filters to flow ~24% better than standard... and every comparative test I've seen has been with some other foam filter. Normally I'd suggest that all foam filters are the same... but over 20 years experience using Unifilter & others suggests that they might have a genuine edge over other manufacturers of foam filters (I'd like to know for sure).

:)
 
They can't even spell particle. (1:19) They make up the "science". For example, a paper filter is not necessarily restrictive nor is it a "surface only" filter. "Zero storage capability"...what?

Foam "never breaks down.."? Hmmm.... Why do other tests show foam lets more dirt through? That break at 4:20 is indeed suspicious.
 
+1 on the tough gaurds
thumbsup2.gif


Just dumped the K&N in my truck and installed TG's in both of vehicles.
 
Aha... an Amsoil dealer.

Show us your tests!!! (tongue in cheek)

I've been trying to sort this out for ages. What tests are you referring to? I've never managed to get a straight answer from anyone... let alone a test. Amsoil never seem to get back to me on this.

Of course foam breaks down eventually... but after 10 years and 242,000Kms my mums Toyota Starlet foam filter was still working.

My LTD foam filter broke down after about 10 years sitting in the cupboard doing nothing... I suspect it would have been OK if it was still in the bike sucking through air.

The brand and type of foam they use make a difference... as does the type of solvents you clean it with... and probably the oil you use to oil it with.

I did some of my own tests a long time ago and they showed a ~50% reduction in silicon (dirt) with the foam air filter. That's exactly what Unifilter claimed.

I'd be really pleased to discuss this with a knowledgeable Amsoil source.

:)
 
Originally Posted By: slick1


I did some of my own tests a long time ago and they showed a ~50% reduction in silicon (dirt) with the foam air filter. That's exactly what Unifilter claimed.

I'd be really pleased to discuss this with a knowledgeable Amsoil source.

:)


Yes, but did you do a 4-Ball test?
grin2.gif
 
Their carrying capacity in particular is poor.

They carry about 1/5 of what a normal filter carries... or so it appears... correct me someone?

What they fail to say is also as important as what they do say. Do you realise that the 2-22 micron particle range is the really important one (according to the SAE at least). If you can get more of the really small stuff out then your engine will last longer.

From memory I believe that around 85% of the particle load in the oil comes from the air filter... so air better will have a big impact on oil.

The foam test in particular was suss... they didn't quote that in the tests section... only in the video. It's always possible to pick a foam air filter that doesn't filter well... or to fail to oil it (all the tests they quote were dry filters)... and then test. I've seen the odd foam air filter that is just normal foam and very thin. Only a loony would use one of those... but it would make a good test for a competitor.

If you're going to do a comparative test then let us see the data. The data was not provided here... not for foam (unless it was dry foam and we know foam should be oiled).

For the record... I'm very impressed by the web site... nice video's.

:)
 
Well there is this:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=70

I'm not necessarily "antifoam" so please don't take it that way. I am antihomebrewtesting and cheezy spliced youtube videos.

Here are some: Cheezy Amsoil Videos

Amsoil performs their tests to ASTM standardized tests. Amsoil used foam filters for 15+ years, so there is some history there. They lasted OK, but not forever - but mainly the filters became or started out quite restrictive. Amsoil used a very good foam and great tacky oil. I think Amsoil just found out that the nanofiber filters are better.
 
The Amsoil videos are certainly good quality... but they lack a lot of detail.

For example how small are the particles that are filtered?

What filters did they compare themselves with?

I've actually tried to buy Amsoil filters continuously over the years... but every time I try it turns out they don't have a filter to suit my car. Amsoil is mainly an American company and does not have filters for many of the cars on the Australian market.

My latest attempt was the Mitsubishi Colt... no filter. I think the Toyota Yaris also didn't have an available filter. My local foam filter manufacturer got me to send in a filter and is making one up for the Yaris (should have that soon) and has also worked with me to find a solution for the Colt (still working on that). Amsoil has never been this responsive.

Don't confuse home brew testing with bad testing.

Some home brew testing is pointless or misleading... but not all.

Figuring out how to test for key performance indicators at home is often just a matter of using your brains and understanding what is being tested. What the tests show is exactly what I've seen over about 4 million kms with various filters... I don't think the tests are fudged. I can't get dirt to go through a good foam filter.

I always wondered why Amsoil stopped using foam filters... but figured that one reason was that you sold one... and you never sold another... because they lasted the life of the vehicle.

Nanofibres require regular changes of air filter.

Given that my favoured foam air filter manufacturer seems to be able to match the flow characteristics of my standard filter... and better them by ~24%... suggests that there is no problem improving flow with foam.

None of the tests so far compare foam to nanofibre.

The motorbikes I ride have a reputation for failing rapidly if they use standard filters in the desert because they load up and then the engine fails.

Foam never fully loads up... as the dust simply falls to the bottom of the air box and the filter continues to breathe (in fact in 600kms of outback roads the filter carrying capacity seemed barely affected).

In the middle of a desert you can't just stop and change air filters... plus you probably wouldn't know when to change them.

One thing nobody ever tests is old filters... Unifilter surprised me by sending my filters off to japan for testing. They found the Toyota Yaris was letting through particles 60 microns in size... and the Mitsubishi Colt was letting through particles 130 microns in size. Both of these were used filters... which suggests that testing when new is not the same as testing when old.

BTW: Mitsubishi would not take a look at the filter in question... and is simply in denial NB. Filtration should be about 40 microns on a normal air filter... so it's interesting to see these claims of filtration up to 2 microns or better... and I wonder how an older filter would perform. Mitsubishi also couldn't provide an official filter spec for their filters... so we have no idea what standard they claim to be filtering to. Doubly annoying was their attitude... they told me if there was dirt in the filter then the filter was doing it's job.

:)
 
I was going to reply with a joke... then decided I might offend him if he was for real.

Single ball test is a pressure test for oil.

4 ball test is something that requires 1 mutant ninja turtle (think about it).

:)
 
Originally Posted By: slick1
I was going to reply with a joke... then decided I might offend him if he was for real.

Single ball test is a pressure test for oil.

4 ball test is something that requires 1 mutant ninja turtle (think about it).

:)


Careful, Pablo is easily offended when people make fun of the 4-ball test.
 
Below 1 um. 0.8 in some cases. I actually don't know all the brands they compared to, I know K&N and Wix.

For sure Amsoil doesn't make air filters for Aus market. And they leave quite a few popular cars without an application in the USA. My educated guess is the tooling cost, but I could be wrong.

Actually the nanofiber filters can be cleaned a couple times.

For some of the reasons you list, Amsoil still carries the Twin Air line for power sports applications:

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2311.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: XS650

Careful, Pablo is easily offended when people make fun of the 4-ball test.


You can make fun of it all you want. I'm not offended in the least. I just don't think it belonged in the middle of this thread. Fairly unprofessional, IMHO.
 
Thanks for clarifying that.

Didn't know the nanofibres could be cleaned.

I didn't know they still did some foam... although usually it required removing the airbox... and re-jetting the carbs as they're not custom made for each bike.

You're quite right... the problems are the tooling cost. Unifilter said the same thing about the Colt.

Yet this is one of the reasons the foam should be more popular... as Unifilter has actually managed to make many of the air filters without using a rigid frame... which reduces production costs dramatically... simplifies the design... and increases the number of filters they can afford to make.

The problem with both the Colt and Yaris was that the air filters flow very large volumes of air (Colt especially)... and Unifilter had to tweak the design to improve flow further than normal.

Apparently part of the problem is that the plastics in the filter frame must last many times longer than a cheap disposable filter... which increases the costs dramatically (can't use cheap Chinese factories).

I continue to remain optimistic that the factory will figure out a way to design a filter for the Colt and I won't have to take the airbox off entirely and fit a pod filter (pods will only fit on some cars).

Alternatively I'd be happy to buy a foam filter from some other company... but to date nobody has one.

:)
 
Flashy videos aside, I find the development of the Amsoil’s line of Nanofiber Air and Oil filters impressive.

Consider:

Donaldson Company Selected to Develop Filtration System for U.S. Army Abrams-Crusader Common Engine Program --> Go Twice the Distance With Donaldson Endurance™ Air Filters --> AMSOIL® Introduces Donaldson Endurance™ Air and Oil Filters with Nanofiber Technology --> AMSOIL Ea Air Filters (EaA) --> AMSOIL Ea Oil Filters (EaO)

Then there's my personal experience with air filters over an eight year progression:

Honda OEM paper --> Neuspeed P-Flo Air Intake Kit with RAMAIR foam air filter --> K & N Wet Gauze OEM replacement filter --> Amsoil Ea Universal Air Induction Filter.

Below are my non-scientific observations while using each filter:

Honda OEM paper: Seem to stay reasonably clean in the factory air box for an extended amount of time. Performance you’d expect from a paper filter in an OEM air box.

Ramair foam: Seemed to achieve higher rpms quicker than compared to the OEM air box and paper filter. Low end torque and fuel economy appeared to be compromised. I didn’t care for the messy cleaning procedure that included the application of Polymer Removal Cleaner and Dirt Retention Polymer treatment. Discontinued use for K&N and factory air box.

K&N OEM Panel: Appreciated bringing back the use of the factory air box. The performance value seemed to be better than paper but not quite as good as the foam filter and air intake. Low end torque and fuel economy appeared to be restored over the foam air filter. Maintenance with the K&N still includes a recommend cleaner and reapplication of proprietary oil. Got cold feet using the K&N after hearing of people experiencing spiked levels of silicon in their UOAs. Discontinued use of K&N for an Amsoil Ea Universal Air Induction Filter. Will soon have a UOA report to see if silicon was an issue while using the K&N.

Amsoil Ea Universal Air Induction Filter : In the absence of an Amsoil Ea OEM replacement air filter for my factory application. I retrofitted one of their Universal Air Induction Filters to the Neuspeed P-Flo Air Intake Kit. This simply consisted of cutting off the old Ramair foam air filter and bolting on the Amsoil Universal unit in its place. As it goes, not too long after fabricating this current filter setup, Amsoil announced the expansion of its Injen/Amsoil Ea line which included a cold air induction kit for my application. None the less, I used existing parts I already had and fabricated an adequate filtration system. While installing the Amsoil Universal set-up, I noticed a dusty residue on the filtered side of the factory air box. Could this be caused by inadequate filtration on the part of the K&N or just years of use? Guess future UOAs will help paint this picture. So far I like the Amsoil filter. No special cleaners, oils or sticky polymer to contend with and it's guaranteed for 4 Years or 100,000 miles. Fuel economy and low-end torque seem to be closer to what the factory air box was. And yet higher rpm use seems to be nearly as good as the foam filter. In the end if I had a choice and the application was available. I’d use an Amsoil Ea OEM replacement type air filter for my car and not worry about any other type/brand of filter.

Again, this is in no way a scientific study, but rather a few things I noticed while using different types/brands of air filters. Others may have other experiences and opinions on this topic.

CompSyn
 
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