Pan drop / filter vs fluid exchange GM 4L60-E

[LeakySeals]

I'd like to skip the big mess dropping the transmission pan to change the filter and just do a fluid exchange at the radiator. Wondering if the filter is more like a fine screen vs paper filter like it is on most Toyotas. The fluid has never been changed has 125,000 miles on it. It's still a little pink but headed towards grey. Has a factory hitch and all the electronics so I think the transmission is a 4L65-E transmission. The plan is to just cycle 2 gallons of maxlife. And then do it again in a couple of years. Will this be good enough or should I make a mess and replace the filter?

 

[GaleHawkins]

We stopped dropping the pans even when a transmission has a pan that can be dropped. We just do a fluid exit at the transmission cooler until we see bubbles then refill the transmission and repeat. We push out a few quarts more than max capacity then to the last refill after reconnecting the line(s) to/from the ATF cooler. This can give up to a 97% fluid change out and does not take long or getting under the vehicle, etc. More and more cars do not have a removable ATF filter any more.

 

[barkingspider]

The filter is not just a screen. U can go to a local auto parts store and see what it looks like. I know it's a pain in the butt to do a pan drop especially because the linkage gets in the way and is a pain to detach it. I did it so I would recommend it, especially since you won't have to ever do it again at least for another 100k miles.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Pan drop and cooler exchange should be done together. Will take 3-4 gallons of ATF.

1. Remove cooler line
2. Start engine until you start to see air bubbles, about 3.5 quarts has been purged. Pan is now almost empty.
3. Remove pan. Since you just purged it, you won't get an ATF shower.
4. Replace filter, reinstall pan.
5. Add exactly as much Trans fluid as came out.
6. Start engine to purge again.
7. Repeat 5 and 6 until you have clear ATF coming out.

Then top off the fluid correctly, and you're done.

 

[Oro_O]

My dad went through this on his van (pan drop), then I poked around for the "next time." For ~$30, you can buy an aftermarket pan with a drain bolt to fix this stupid oversight.

At 125k, there is going to be enough worn friction material in the pan bottom and fine shavings that it would be good to get it out, clean the magnets, and install a new filter. I am a big fan of line exchanges for completeness of fluid exchange, but sometimes a pan drop is a good thing.

I would:

a) drop the pan, change filter, clean, and weld in a drain bolt or get an aftermarket pan.
b) I would THEN do a line exchange until clean fluid comes out.
c) Then do a drain/fill every 30k.

At 140k on his Van, just a drain fill made a dramatic difference in transmission performance. But for longevity, an full exchange would be much better.

 

[901Memphis]

You will want to change the filter in that one with that many miles on the FF it will certainly have measurable amounts of clutch material in the filter layers reducing flow some.

Try to get the best filter you can, look for Allomatic or SPX Filtran as your top two choices. If you can't find it online get the dealership filter which is still probably made in China but to SPX filtran original Specifications which is better than what you're going to get at any auto parts store (Except Napa which used to have allomatic made in the USA)

 

[901Memphis]

Success! This is the only made in the USA high quality filter like the oem available

http://shop.tripleedgeperformance.com/4L60E-Filter-98-Deep-Pan-77710HA.htm

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Pan drop and cooler exchange should be done together. Will take 3-4 gallons of ATF.

1. Remove cooler line
2. Start engine until you start to see air bubbles, about 3.5 quarts has been purged. Pan is now almost empty.
3. Remove pan. Since you just purged it, you won't get an ATF shower.
4. Replace filter, reinstall pan.
5. Add exactly as much Trans fluid as came out.
6. Start engine to purge again.
7. Repeat 5 and 6 until you have clear ATF coming out.

Then top off the fluid correctly, and you're done.


We went this route on the motor home transmission because I could craw under it with ease. After we did it I realized the paper filter was more to keep solids out of the ATF pump pick-up should there be a major failure plus newer cars often only have a wire mess filter so we just pump out most all the ATF cooler and go another 50-60K miles. We just started using Lubegard in our automatics.

I try to run Seafoam TransTune for 200-300 miles before the total ATF exchange so it is more like a dealership flush.

The Aisin Warner AWF21 transmission in the 2006 Ford Five Hundred does not have a pan to drop or a filter to change. At 110K miles we pumped it down then refilled twice so we forced 3 gallons out of a 2 gallon system then topped of with the remaining four quarts of a 12 quart case. I got it off Amazon since it requires Mobil 3309 but that only saved $18 over getting the Ford branded version or $6 vs $7.50 a quart.

If one has a pan that can be dropped using your method is awesome but does introduce two potential failure points for those doing it for the first time. With the full exchange there is one or two failure points which I can check at a glance every time I raise the hood.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins

I try to run Seafoam TransTune for 200-300 miles before the total ATF exchange so it is more like a dealership flush.


+1.

This is also a good idea and I have done this with good success in the past.

From reading the MSDS, Transtune and regular SeaFoam appear to be the same other than the red dye in the TT. If you can't find the TT, I would not hesitate to use regular SF for the same period in the AT before a fluid swap.

 

[901Memphis]

Lubegard won't make much of a difference if you're already using a synthetic fluid like DexronVI or Maxlife

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
I'd like to skip the big mess dropping the transmission pan to change the filter and just do a fluid exchange at the radiator. Wondering if the filter is more like a fine screen vs paper filter like it is on most Toyotas. The fluid has never been changed has 125,000 miles on it. It's still a little pink but headed towards grey. Has a factory hitch and all the electronics so I think the transmission is a 4L65-E transmission. The plan is to just cycle 2 gallons of maxlife. And then do it again in a couple of years. Will this be good enough or should I make a mess and replace the filter?


If it's never been changed, I would be dropping the pan. There's enough gunk in there that should be cleaned up.

Here's proof from 98 Sienna why to do it. That paper towel was white before it became black.

http://s115.photobucket.com/user/charkin...rt=3&page=1

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins

I try to run Seafoam TransTune for 200-300 miles before the total ATF exchange so it is more like a dealership flush.


+1.

This is also a good idea and I have done this with good success in the past.

From reading the MSDS, Transtune and regular SeaFoam appear to be the same other than the red dye in the TT. If you can't find the TT, I would not hesitate to use regular SF for the same period in the AT before a fluid swap.


Or the local NAPA owner told me the son of the creator of Sea Foam said other than the color the TransTune has a bit more cleaning power. You notice the MSDS gives a % range of the ingredients. If the same price I run the TransTune in the crank case too for the last 20 miles/minutes before an oil change.

On the Aisin Warner transmission that we just flushed in the drive way I wanted to get as much of the old ATF as possible since it was high mileage OEM factory ATF. I added one quart of the Mobil 3309 after the first pump down mixed with 8 oz of regular Seafoam and pumped to bubbles then put in the second quart and the last 8 oz of the can and pumped down to bubbles again. Before the first pump down I did blow by mouth the ATF in the cooler and return line into the transmission case. That is not required if the pump down is done by catching the ATF coming out of the ATF cooler returning connection. I learn more on each vehicle ATF exchange.

 

[AlaskaMike]

Dropping the pan allows you to do an inspection. While you have it dropped, drill a hole in the pan and install a drain plug.

I'm not crazy about running my transmission fluid out like you guys are talking about.

If you're worried about filtration, install a spin-on hydraulic filter as a bypass filter.

 

[JTK]

The nice thing about having an actual pan to drop is, you can wipe the mess out of it when you remove it. I've never seen one without a magnet in it. Does not removing this goo harm anything? Who knows. It doesn't seem to effect vertically split, pan-less ATs.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Lubegard won't make much of a difference if you're already using a synthetic fluid like DexronVI or Maxlife


901Memphis I think your point may be valid. It is the cleaner part of the Lubegard that interests me the most.

In this Ford Aisin Warner six speed Auto it has a L position. It locks it into 1st and second gear only. The upshift to 2nd only occurs after RPM's in 1st reach 3800 RPM. The computer will cause a down shift to 1st when RPM's drop below 1700 RPM's (at least in our Ford 500).

I was about 125 miles into the Seafoam TransTune ATF flush operation using the first 8 oz of Seafoam TransTune. That computer forced down shift from 2nd to 1st was HARD. The ATF was at operating temperature because I was doing stop and goes near the house forcing it to shift through all six gears then TC lock up then downshift.

On a whim I had order the Red and Platinum Lubegard just to see them mainly so I went up to the house and put in 12 oz of Lubegard Red. I went back to doing my stop and goes for a few cycles then tested the L feature. The computer forced downshift to 1st from 2nd when RPM's dropped to 1700 was nice and smooth instead of a Hard BANG like 30 minutes before.

I was sold on Lubegard after that DEMO I set up on the fly.

After that I added the last half of the can of Transtune and drove the car another 175 miles then did the total exchange of the 8 quarts of ATF before it cooled down too much using 12 quarts of the Mobil 3309 that meets Ford specs.

It shifted great after that but I went ahead and topped of with 16 oz of Lubegard Platinum.

Because Lubegard Platinum will turn Dexron III/VI into Mobil 3309 specs if I am traveling on a weekend when Ford or Toyota (their Type 4 is Mobil 3309 as well) are closed I can just grab a quart or two of Dexron III or VI and be back on the road. http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant

 

[901Memphis]

I would never recommend lubegard Platinum because I wouldn't want to change the coefficient of friction of the fluid. Lubegard red only contains a small amount of friction modifier which is why it probably won't hurt when adding to an already well formulated product.

 

[daman]

Lubegard red is not needed when Dex 6 is used(should be used in this service)also throw a Magnifine on it also.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Get an aftermarket pan that has a drain plug

 

[Kira]

To the OP's original message:

I just had my hands on a 2001 Chevrolet Camaro with the 4L60E. The OM said to service the transmission filter every 30,000 miles. Believe me, I read it over and over to make sure.

During April, at 93,000 miles the unit (when first I saw it) was 36 ounces shy of fluid. It caused a long delay (20 seconds) in going into gear. Bringing the level to full made it shift perfectly.

Come November, at 96,500 miles (when I got the car to sell) the transmission level was still at the full mark. How I'd love to have dropped the pan and see what was in there.
Also, in the 7 months the owner drove the car the engine consumed over a quart of oil. Kira

 

[GaleHawkins]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I would never recommend lubegard Platinum because I wouldn't want to change the coefficient of friction of the fluid. Lubegard red only contains a small amount of friction modifier which is why it probably won't hurt when adding to an already well formulated product.


901Memphis I agree with you in most cases but not in the case of the Aisin Warner AWF21 transmission so much. The Mobil 3309 seems to come with more friction modifier than Dexron VI, ATF+4, etc line of fluids.

On a side note I think since Lubegard replaces the worn Add Pack in the ATF just adding 16 oz of it to ones transmission ATF may be as functional as doing a total ATF change out.