owners of electric power steering cars

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All else equal, you WILL lose some of the sensations when you go from HPS (hydraulic power steering) to EPS (electric power steering). Whether you notice the loss or care, that's another question.

EPS inherently has more friction, so it tends to erase some of the fine sensations you might get in the steering wheel that tell you about the road surface. A lot of cars are set up (through bushings etc.) to dial those fine sensations out anyway, so it's not always a noticeable loss. In a sporty car, though, it's a big loss.

EPS systems also tend to be programmed to counteract certain vibrations. Those vibrations may or may not have been useful for the driver to feel. Sporty cars tend to do less of this filtering than non-sporty cars.

Other aspects of feel are effort and cornering loads. No real difference between HPS and EPS here.

I have EPS in my current car. I definitely notice the loss of those fine sensations. I'm okay with it because the steering is excellent in every other way, and because I get enough feel from the rest of the chassis anyway.
 
My DD is electric. Kind of feels like it gets a little stiffer/harder the faster I go. Tight, like no play. Other than that, not much thinking about it - oh, no having to check the PS fluid level.
Weird... steering column missing.
 
My GTI has EPS, but I don't know if it's gear driven or electric over hydraulic. Feels great. I am almost certain that at much over parking lot speeds, it is not active. That is the real beauty of EPS.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
There are way too many drivers on the road that need to be upgraded in order to properly work with newer vehicles.BC.


Excellent quote and I agree.
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
I am almost certain that at much over parking lot speeds, it is not active. That is the real beauty of EPS.

That's doable with HPS, too...
 
My Mitsubishi (Hydraulic power steering) has more feel than what my Saturn ION had (electric power steering)

However, I am not sure if the comparison can be fair. One car has a suspension and tires built for performance, whereas the other focused on comfort.

My dad's Pontiac G6 had a much different steering feel than the Saturn. What was weird was that the assist provided by the Saturn felt consistent, but on the Pontiac G6 the steering would suddenly go from light to heavy the moment you reached 10 MPH.

I don't mind having electric power steering or hydraulic power steering, so long as it works well.
 
I actually wish more small cars still came with manual steering. In a lightweight car a properly designed manual rack is not that much of a workout. When I had my 89 Accord I was on the 3Geez.com forum. A number of guys did group buys on manual steering racks from Canada. Apparently, they were much more common on the 3G Accords up there.

Talk about a massive reduction in complexity and potential issues!
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I actually wish more small cars still came with manual steering. In a lightweight car a properly designed manual rack is not that much of a workout. When I had my 89 Accord I was on the 3Geez.com forum. A number of guys did group buys on manual steering racks from Canada. Apparently, they were much more common on the 3G Accords up there.

Talk about a massive reduction in complexity and potential issues!


Bingo!

I used to drive a 1984 VW Rabbit GTI until it was stolen (I really loved that car too!) it had manual steering and it was fantastic. Great response, and feedback, like manual transmission it makes you feel more connected to the car, and is more entertaining and enjoyable. I only wish I could have that car back again!

Fact is that any car under 2500 pounds could use a manual rack and not have its slow speed usability be compromised.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I actually wish more small cars still came with manual steering. In a lightweight car a properly designed manual rack is not that much of a workout. When I had my 89 Accord I was on the 3Geez.com forum. A number of guys did group buys on manual steering racks from Canada. Apparently, they were much more common on the 3G Accords up there.

Talk about a massive reduction in complexity and potential issues!


I agree!

Eons ago I had an S10 with manual brakes too. I found I rather liked them. They had this feel that I can't describe other than to say "linear". They just felt great. Later when I got my non-power steering Saturn SL I always wanted to get manual brakes on that as a 2,300lb car IMO does not need assisted brakes.

I can understand that people like assisted brakes&steering, not going to call them wimps: but I was fine back then w/o. Maybe today not so much, my Jetta IMO nailed the right amount of feel and assist.
 
Non-assisted brakes indeed are wonderful. I had those on my '81 Dodge p/u. Once passed the initial hardness, the pedal effort was just about the same as an assist unit. I thought so, at least.
 
I had a few non-power steering econoboxes back in the late 80s, early 90s. ('84 Renault Encore and a 1989 Dodge Colt) Really didn't even notice it back then! The only vehicle I owned w/out vacuum assist braking was a 1979 Ford Granada (very first car). Took a pretty hard mash to stop IIRC, but a lot of that could have been hardware/maintenance related.
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
I had a few non-power steering econoboxes back in the late 80s, early 90s. ('84 Renault Encore...


My family had one of those Encores when I was in college. The steering was not at all difficult. The thing got 40 mpg on the highway, too. Of course, it was about as slow and gutless as could be, even with the manual (4 speed). Still, the steering on that car would be quite acceptable on a car of today.
 
In some cases, cars got power steering so that the caster angle could be increased. That is a huge advantage in a car that isn't very stable at high speeds.

This is why when a car has optional power steering, the alignment computer will ask you if the car has power steering or not.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: JetStar
I am almost certain that at much over parking lot speeds, it is not active. That is the real beauty of EPS.

That's doable with HPS, too...


I'm sure it is, but probably not as cheaply as EPS.
 
How so? Either way, the system is dialing back the assist at higher speeds. It can never be fully off because the assist is adding its own resistance.

HPS systems have been speed-sensitive for decades now...
 
The 3G Accords (86-89) had such a system. It was purely mechanical, with a speed sensor mounted in the transaxle. It caused a fluid bypass above a set speed (about 35 mph).
 
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
Some infiniti Q50s have steer by wire. Apparently they are going back to regular PS for 2016 - at least as an option.


The reason why was obvious, folks that considered buying the car, and auto journalists complained about how TERRIBLE it was.
 
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I actually wish more small cars still came with manual steering. In a lightweight car a properly designed manual rack is not that much of a workout. When I had my 89 Accord I was on the 3Geez.com forum. A number of guys did group buys on manual steering racks from Canada. Apparently, they were much more common on the 3G Accords up there.

Talk about a massive reduction in complexity and potential issues!
Maybe on Hondas, I have a Toyota with 300K on the the pump, rack, and lines. I DO change the fliud once a year.
 
Whether the assist is hydraulic or from an electric motor the retention of manual rack-and-pinion "feel" is going to be a function of the how the system detects steering effort and therefore applies appropriate assist.
The widely-used torsion rod is to blame for the loss of feel and that's present on both types of systems, at least all those I'm familiar with. But with electronics (with either type of assist) that can be easily evolved from an angle-sensor to a strain-gauge on a stiffer torsion bar, and bring back some of that steering feel.

As for friction some electric systems add assist at the steering shaft (after the torsion bar) while others power the rack directly. The latter method is likely to be far superior, as it is with a hydraulic system. One of Audi's electric systems uses a belt-driven recirculating ballscrew on the rack which will add far less friction than a worm gearset. In any case electronics provide great opportunities to fine-tune the servo control and are clearly the way of the future, whether the assist power is hydraulic or electric, and of course in the end cost will determine that.
 
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