Howdy all, I've been reading for some time here and I belive that reading all of your posts have saved my engine. I've read about larger filters and to say not to the orange can. Plus tons of other things. One thing I have not gotten down yet is how to determine how big of a filter you can go. I have a '89 chevy beretta with a 2.8L engine. I read in a TSB that there is a larger filter that you can use, but it is to long. Is there anyone out there know of a larger filter that I can use with this car? Or can someone show me how to find out myself? Thanks!
Oversized filter
- Thread starter kjbuente
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Why do you want to go to a larger filter? If you want to improve flow, filtration, particle capacity, and filter life, just go with Amsoil's new nanofiber EAO29 filter, specked for your car. If you want to lower engine temperature or extend your oil change interval, go with a premium synthetic oil.
Amen.
I straddle the fence on this one.
1) On one hand I totally agree with Tim V. In reality with a great filter and great oil, your car will rust away or hate to say, be wrecked in a crash long before the engine is toast due to the oil system or rather the original engine designer's oil filter size selection.
2) On the other had - in certain cars and closed motor RV's, with a low volume oil system, hot running turbo, tiny poor designed OEM filter - the benefits in an increased oil volume may be substantial. Can this be accomplished simply with a larger oil filter? Well, that is not such a simple question to answer. To increase the oil volume with a dual remote full size set of filters (2 X FL-1A's for example), high capacity HD lines, large cooler with thermostat control - well I have seen this really work. The oil lasts longer and the OCI's show sharply reduced wear metals.
Lastly - this is also one of the questions that says - well if you have to ask, maybe you shouldn't be fiddling.
However - this part tells me at least you are a bit cautious:
Sure - ask Gary Allen
He'll likely learn about the stock filter, the thread size, the sealing ring size, filter dimensions, the by-pass valve PSID, ADBV, the flow in GPM, etc....and then go to: http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/ for handy dandy reference.
Listen - I ran my Toyota 22REC for many years with a way oversize filter. No harm done. Can't prove it did great and extended engine life either.
1) On one hand I totally agree with Tim V. In reality with a great filter and great oil, your car will rust away or hate to say, be wrecked in a crash long before the engine is toast due to the oil system or rather the original engine designer's oil filter size selection.
2) On the other had - in certain cars and closed motor RV's, with a low volume oil system, hot running turbo, tiny poor designed OEM filter - the benefits in an increased oil volume may be substantial. Can this be accomplished simply with a larger oil filter? Well, that is not such a simple question to answer. To increase the oil volume with a dual remote full size set of filters (2 X FL-1A's for example), high capacity HD lines, large cooler with thermostat control - well I have seen this really work. The oil lasts longer and the OCI's show sharply reduced wear metals.
Lastly - this is also one of the questions that says - well if you have to ask, maybe you shouldn't be fiddling.
However - this part tells me at least you are a bit cautious:
Sure - ask Gary Allen
He'll likely learn about the stock filter, the thread size, the sealing ring size, filter dimensions, the by-pass valve PSID, ADBV, the flow in GPM, etc....and then go to: http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/ for handy dandy reference.
Listen - I ran my Toyota 22REC for many years with a way oversize filter. No harm done. Can't prove it did great and extended engine life either.
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Quote:
Sure - ask Gary Allen
What are you trying to say here, pal
GM's present a problem for me. I don't use the filters and they don't have BPV before 07 models and may or may not have ADBV...so there's not as much to measure aside from size in a given product line.
I too switch hit on this issue. Right now, since I installed an exchanger on the wife's jeep, I had to DOWNSIZE the filter to a PH3614 size (EaO57) to stop the filter from smacking the motor mount when she dumps the clutch on hills
My feeling is that we don't produce as much junk to be filtered these days ..but using a larger filter, assuming that the media is the same, can improve its efficiency due to lowering the oil flow velocity. You do get some added volume to the sump ..and, generally, that can't hurt. It's one of those things that "while you're there - why not??".
But ..you said that the other filter is too long
Pablo referred you to the Baldwin site. It is one of my best resources since they typically list a longer or shorter version of the filter if it's available. In your case there is.
xref'd back into Wix for maximum data:
Your current filter (baldwin B43-S)
Part Number: 51040
UPC Number: 765809510401
Principal Application: Daewoo (99-02), GM Cars/Trucks (76-07), Saab (94-98)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.404
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=15/31
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226
The longer one (Baldwin B35-S)
Part Number: 51036
UPC Number: 765809510364
Principal Application: GM Cars + Trucks (80-05), Mercruiser, Volvo-Penta
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=12/26
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 25
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226
The usual oversize filter for GM V-6s is the PF-52(AC)/PH-3980(Fram). I've put that O/S filter on a couple of 2.8s, one in a Beretta.
The determining factor is what's in the way.
The filter on the 89, IIRC is in the front of the engine, and there wasn't anything in the way on the two I worked on.
3.1 and 3.8 have the filter in the back of the engine and the frame is close but the O/S filter fits there too.
The K&N filter has a nut on the bottom that could interfere with the frame or some accessory or hose.
The determining factor is what's in the way.
The filter on the 89, IIRC is in the front of the engine, and there wasn't anything in the way on the two I worked on.
3.1 and 3.8 have the filter in the back of the engine and the frame is close but the O/S filter fits there too.
The K&N filter has a nut on the bottom that could interfere with the frame or some accessory or hose.
PureOne PL34631 on my Z28 camaro.
It is about an inch longer then the one the book has listed for my car.
It just so happens by doing that now my 1985 Z28 camaro and my 1984 6.2L diesel suburban use the same oil filter.
But that P/N will not fit a 2.8 I don't think. Most likey Purolator has at least 2 sizes that could fit on that engine. Go throught and find the biggest one, buy it and use it.
It is about an inch longer then the one the book has listed for my car.
It just so happens by doing that now my 1985 Z28 camaro and my 1984 6.2L diesel suburban use the same oil filter.
But that P/N will not fit a 2.8 I don't think. Most likey Purolator has at least 2 sizes that could fit on that engine. Go throught and find the biggest one, buy it and use it.
Correction to above post:
Early 3.1s have the filter on the back of the engine(toward rear of auto), newer 3.1s have it re-located to the front side.
Early 3.1s have the filter on the back of the engine(toward rear of auto), newer 3.1s have it re-located to the front side.
I currently use a oversized filter for my 93 mazda 626. Just something about using an oversized filter makes me feel at ease. I have always belived that IF something was going to in the engine that was going to deposit some kind of debris in the oil. An oversized filter would catch were an OEM size might be in bypass for some reason. Less work done to the engine to clean out the debris means cheaper repair costs.
The main thing was that I just wanted to know how. I love to learn on how things work and why. And since I was told how, I thank you all for it.
I also thank you for telling me about using better OEM size filters doing better than oversized filters. (Ex. Amsoil's new nanofiber EAO29). I will look into this as well.
Kevin
The main thing was that I just wanted to know how. I love to learn on how things work and why. And since I was told how, I thank you all for it.
I also thank you for telling me about using better OEM size filters doing better than oversized filters. (Ex. Amsoil's new nanofiber EAO29). I will look into this as well.
Kevin
This thread and the other one from last week on the Mazda filter leads me to ask this:
Why don't the car manufacturers spec out the "oversized" filters right from the beginning? In other words, why don't they install a bigger filter if the flow is the same and you can get a larger filtering area?
Why don't the car manufacturers spec out the "oversized" filters right from the beginning? In other words, why don't they install a bigger filter if the flow is the same and you can get a larger filtering area?
If I REALLY wanted to install an oversized filter. I think I would install an remote location kit, or fabricate some kind of shield to protect the filter. Honestly, for just to use an oversized filter this is to much work for this engine. I belive that the 2.8 are one of the most dependable engines. (I may be wrong, I have not have had many cars in the past).
Anyways, but yes. The filter is pointed downwards. I was hopeing to find a "fatter" filter instead. But I have not found one yet, though I am still looking now I know what to look for. I'm starting to look at more effcient filters. Expecially since I noticed that my oil pressure is normal when cold (~60PSI) but drops to about ~25PSI when it has finally warmed up. But I belive that this is due to the oil needing changed. ( I just bought this car, been sitting for 6 months).
Again thanks for all the help!
Anyways, but yes. The filter is pointed downwards. I was hopeing to find a "fatter" filter instead. But I have not found one yet, though I am still looking now I know what to look for. I'm starting to look at more effcient filters. Expecially since I noticed that my oil pressure is normal when cold (~60PSI) but drops to about ~25PSI when it has finally warmed up. But I belive that this is due to the oil needing changed. ( I just bought this car, been sitting for 6 months).
Again thanks for all the help!
You're welcome. And if anyone hasn't said it yet,
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There should be nothing wrong with your oil indications reacting that way. Cold ..you should reach a limit (maybe it's your 60psi) .as the oil heats .it's going to thin and produce less pressure. What you did not say is when it's 60 and 25psi. Can we assume that this is at idle?? If so, and even if the spread was more ...that would be normal.
My late mother's Citation went around the clock twice without issues before she gave it away. 220k+. For her it was reliable.
Smaller filter = cheaper to make = more profit.
Or, if you're not cynical, smaller filter = takes up less landfill space when it's used up = easier to recycle too.
The PF-52 isn't THAT much longer than the PF-47. Doesn't stick down past the oil pan.
There is a filter for some older GM trucks that was very long and THAT one might have been long enough to worry about grounding/scrapping.
There is a filter for some older GM trucks that was very long and THAT one might have been long enough to worry about grounding/scrapping.
Not everyone wants to pay $20 for an oil filter or $6 per quart for oil. A bigger oil filter is an option for anyone wanting more oil filtering, more oil cooling, and more oil capacity. And, the cost increase in many situations, is nil.
Its pretty funny that the smaller engine of that year Beretta gets the big filter, and the bigger engine gets the small filter.
Here's a couple more for size comparison:
Part Number: 51286
UPC Number: 765809512863
Principal Application: Peugeot 505 Turbo Diesel (81-82)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 5.551
Outer Diameter Top: 3.400
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 23
51190
UPC Number: 765809511903
Principal Application: Hyster Lift Trucks w/GM Engines
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.704
Outer Diameter Top: 2.983
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 250
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 24
Its pretty funny that the smaller engine of that year Beretta gets the big filter, and the bigger engine gets the small filter.
Here's a couple more for size comparison:
Part Number: 51286
UPC Number: 765809512863
Principal Application: Peugeot 505 Turbo Diesel (81-82)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 5.551
Outer Diameter Top: 3.400
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 23
51190
UPC Number: 765809511903
Principal Application: Hyster Lift Trucks w/GM Engines
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.704
Outer Diameter Top: 2.983
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 250
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 24
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Kevin, your condition is normal ..it's just that your Mazda, if it always reads 55psi, is continually in pressure relief. I'd seriously do UOA and determine if you can go down a grade in viscosity. My wife's engine is constantly in relief off idle with anything except a 20 weight oil. Stated differently, a 20 weight oil is required to allow the full output of the oil pump to pass through the engine. The engine is only designed to accept about 5 gpm max ...but I've got a 9 gpm (potential flow) pump.
When the pump is always in relief, you're at a variable flow depending on viscosity and your filter is going to be more prone to being in bypass when cold (anytime, actually where transitions occur). Your filter's BPV setting determines the amount of flow shunted back to the suction side of the pump.
Just something to consider.
Let me add a "Thank you!" since I've been chomping at the bit waiting for someone like you to come along with a OEM setup like this. I've seen them before ..but none that I can point to "in fact" from an independent source. Now I can point to Kevin's Mazda as an instance of this condition.
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