Outer tie rod end diagnosis

[Jimmy9190]

I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota, 134,400 miles on it now, 2 wheel drive, 3.9 liter V6 and a 5-speed manual. It has a problem with a clunk or pop type noise coming from the front end, usually when I am backing up and turning left or right, as in backing out of a parking space. I will occasionally hear the noise when moving forward and I make a hard stop. The noise will also occur sometimes if I just turn the wheels lock to lock while sitting still.

I already replaced the stabilizer bar bushings, the stabilizer bar end links and their bushings, uppper and lower ball joints, and inner tie rod ends. I used Duralast and TRW parts, except for the stabilizer bar bushings. Those are Moog. None of these new parts helped the noise but they all needed replacing anyway.

I had the outer tie rod ends done 60,000 miles ago when I took it in for an alignment, they used Moog parts. When I did the other work on the front end recently, I noticed the outer tie rod ends can be moved by hand. They are not loose and I don't feel any serious play in them but I can grab the stud end and turn it, move it 360 degrees in its socket easily by hand. Is that normal for a TRE? Can that amount of looseness cause this noise I hear? Is 60K a normal life span for a Moog outer TRE? Is a TRE supposed to be stiff and unable to move at all by hand?

The truck drives and steers fine. No looseness or wandering. There is a very minor and slight vibration I can feel in the steering wheel but I attributed that to bad Florida roads and the age of the truck. Shocks are Monroe Reflex front and rear and have about 30K on them. The steeering rack looks OK to me. There was no movement or play in it when I had a helper move the steering wheel while I looked at it from underneath the truck. There are no abnormal noises in the rack when steering while driving either.

I had posted here about the clunk/ pop noise a couple of months ago. I was unable to fix it then and decided to wait and see if it got worse. Now it is getting worse and I still don't know what is causing this noise. The tire shop couldn't figure it out either, but they didn't spend a great deal of time looking at it.

I appreciate any help you can offer.

 

[Trav]

As long as there is no up and down play they should be fine.
Check the upper and lower control arm bushings.

 

[IndyIan]

I think any play is too much for tie rod ends. I had one that wasn't loose in any plane except its normal push pull for a long time. It clunked abit too on rough gravel roads or when I was hard on and off the gas.
Got it replaced and the car drives much better. I would just replace the tie rod ends if there is any play.

 

[mechtech2]

You can move the tie rod end 360 degrees???
No you didn't. But some are indeed tighter than others.

If new parts did not fix or change the noise, then we have to go further. Control arm bushings and strut bearings/mounts are possible.
And also brake parts!

 

[eljefino]

The stud end, as in the part with the castle nut with (usually) a cotter pin? That should NOT move, it should be jammed in the knuckle pretty fiercely from the nut drawing it in.

OTOH if you grabbed the tie rod and twisted that, you can usually get about 30 degrees of twist in.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Brake calipers, slide pins, pads and rotors are all new. I just re-did the whole front brakes in January and I also had a BG Power Flush done on the brake fluid. Truck brakes perfectly, it will stop on a dime and give you 9 cents change.

There is none of the hum or growling noise associated with a bad wheel bearing/hub. There is no movement or play at all when I pull in or out, up or down, or side to side on the tire with it mounted on the hub, either. Everything at the hub/wheel/ball joint is tight and solid. But I get a loud pop/thunk noise when backing up and turning at the same time. If I back up in a straight line, there is no noise of any kind.

It would seem to me if I had bad control arm bushings, the noise would be there all the time, driving forward, backward, turning no matter which one the noise would still be present.

I am thinking even though the TRE's are Moog, which are supposed to be the best suspension parts you can buy, they still have too much movement in the stud ends. They do have 60K miles on them. I think so because I have had the truck re-aligned a couple of times in the last 6 months from replacing steering and suspension parts, and both times the alignment tech has had a hard time getting the steering wheel straight. He had to over-compensate on one or two adjustments to get the steering wheel to sit straight. On the last alignment when I did the Inner Tie Rods, it took 4 attempts and going to 2 different tire shops before they got the steering wheel straight. Their alignment machine's printer was down so I don't know what adjustments were made. And I don't know enough about alignment to know exactly what adjustments he made.

Here's a really dumb question--When I did the ball joints earlier this year, I took a 3 lb. sledge hammer and knocked the stud ends of the outer tie rod ends out of their holes on the steering knuckles. I did not have a puller on hand to remove them. But I did loosen their mounting nuts and left them screwed down on on the stud ends so the parts would not separate violently. Would that damage the tie rod ends enough to cause this clunk/pop noise I have now?

 

[mechtech2]

Setting the steering wheel straight is stone simple.
So is setting the toe on most cars, which is done first.
I am not sure what problem your guys were trying to overcome.

Did the hammer method wreck your tie rod ends?
Possibly.
Tie rod ends are steel on steel, steel on plastic, plastic on plastic , or dampened in rubber.
but this should be felt or seen.
Try the old test:
Have someone wiggle the steering wheel back and forth rapidly 1-2 inches, and you look underneath at the parts to see what is not moving that SHOULD be.
If things are not tight, you will see it.