Opinion on a quarter century old BMW 850i (E31)

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Such a gorgeous ride.

But I would be scared to death to buy it.

+1

Heck, there were years when my 530i needed $5K worth of upkeep stuff. I can only imagine how much this 850i would need...

 

[MCompact]

I'm not scared of them- just too big and heavy for my tastes. I'd MUCH rather have my E24 M6 back. The thing is, if you know where to buy parts and can do at least some of the work yourself it isn't all that daunting a proposition- unlike the E60 M5, where, for example, fuel injectors can(and often do) stick open and hydro-lock the motor...

 

[hattaresguy]

Its not as good as the equivalent Mercedes but its not terrible. Like any old German car if you buy a good example and learn how to look after it, it won't be terrible to own.

Most of the people who put them down have never even sat in one, its all hearsay.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Are we talking about $5,000 per year every year? The car would be mostly for fun driving but would like to take it to work twice a week, so it needs to be reliable enough to not leave me stranded on the road.

As far as local mechanic, I don't know; may be once he stops laughing at me, he might be willing to work on it.

I saw an episode of Wheeler Dealer where they fixed it up. They fixed oil leak, air conditioning and did some cosmetic work on it.

Does it need timing belt every 30K miles? Does the engine needs to come out to replace spark plugs? Valves need to be replace every 15K miles? I mean it is still a BMW and not Ferrari or Maserati and should not have insane maintenance requirement. Or am I mistaken?


If you are not a DIY'er and will be subbing all repairs out you need to locate a good BMW repair shop, not a general mechanic. Taking it to a regular mechanic for every problem will be an exercise in futility.

Off the top of my head the biggest problem with that motor is that its electrical system is not that of a V12 but of two I6's. This creates all sorts of interesting failure points.

Also when you look at examples you need to have the above mentioned mechanic do a PPI on all of them. Its money well spent, unless your very familiar with the car an example needing thousands in repairs could seem to drive and run just fine.

 

[Volvohead]

My recollection of this car is that it was difficult to repair and required repair more often than the typical BMW of its era. Worse than the Merc V-12. I agree with the others that this was a poster child for complex German electricals. Parts are reasonable (relatively), but outside labor (and some special tools) will be murderous even now. This is one of them that justified the acronym BMW: Break My Wallet.

Unless you are spinning the wrenches for the most part, be prepared for a large service budget. I'm not thinking $5k every year. Most years would probably be less. But there may be points where it could go over $5k. At a minimum the first year will be expensive. Once you start getting invested in one like this, it gets harder to back out of it, as money spent doesn't necessarily increase the car's value.

If you are willing to dedicate yourself to the car as a serious hobby and learn the vehicle intimately, then it becomes much more do-able.

If the seller still has access to the service records, reviewing them may give you a taste for what it entails. It had better be currently serviced, or you can add that to your opening budget. The mileage would be a huge factor for me. I would not invest long dollars in a very high mileage one.

This was a positively wondrous, exhilarating car when new. It's also a conservative, beautifully sporty design. It still should give you that majestic rush when you jump on it. But it is also one of those cars that is best when leased new. Most were, or were traded over relatively early by well-heeled owners. It's the subsequent owners that will determine exactly what you have now.

Vikas, you do seem attracted to Hamilton magnets.

 

[97tbird]

I have lusted after those. A Camry shouldn't be even in the same sentence, it's an insult to an 8-series. (Camry has its place, but in a very different mass market world).

The 8-series is still a beautiful shape, perfect coupe. With 5 spoke wheels they look gorgeous. (18" looks better I think, the 17" wheels look a bit too small for the shape, IMO. It's a pretty big car)

But the 850 maintenance costs would scare me. What about the 840, which has the v8? I assume maintenance costs would be less, overall, and easier to find.
Either model is hard to find with M/T.

I think 96/97 are the last and most sought after years. The ugly 4 spoke steering wheel was changed to a better looking 3 spoke one and A/T got Steptronic I think. Tail lights got a more modern look. Some electrical bugs were also ironed out in 96/97 models, but I have forgotten what they were.

When I was looking for a car I remember thinking of these, and also Lexus SC (Toyota Soarer) series that ended in 2001; (SC300/400); those are also great looking cars, even now, 1998+ best if you ever look for one (got a lot of interior and mechanical upgrades); Very nice interiors, too; Not much HP but I think they were quick enough for sure. Again I couldn't find anything low mileage.

(Finally settled for a 2005 330Ci E46 with the ZHP package).

 

[Vikas]

If this is worse than a MB V12 in terms of reliability and maintenance, then I guess I would have to forget about it. I have no idea why I thought 850 was better.

 

[jrustles]

They're nice rides. Well I can't say for the 850 particularly, but the 750iL was fantastic. You could drive all day without exceeding 2000rpm once.

It ran fine on Castrol 20w50, the only problems to show up were a bum hydraulic system sensor and a failed DBW throttle body on one bank.

 

[fdcg27]

That is a really awful color for any BMW.
White or black would be nice.
Any 850 would leave any Toyota for dead on any road course, including those wearing the Lexus badge.
On any decent straight, the BMW would lope away, and it could outbrake any Toyota product into any corner.
If the car has been maintained and if it's seen regular use and is not a garage queen, then this might be a neat car to buy.
As others have noted, you should have an emergency fund available should something expensive need work.
You should also find a good BMW indie who has experience with the BMW V-12 and not rely upon a dealership where the techs have never touched nor even seen such a thing.
If you want it and can afford the potential downside risk, then why not?
They are cheap enough to make a new Camry look expensive.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I suspect an SC400 would be competitive with the 850. A twin-turbo Supra, of course, would suck the doors off it! (On a relatively tight course...honestly, I'd bet an 850 would have trouble pacing an MR2.)

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I suspect an SC400 would be competitive with the 850. A twin-turbo Supra, of course, would suck the doors off it! (On a relatively tight course...honestly, I'd bet an 850 would have trouble pacing an MR2.)


On any straight of decent length, there's no way any Toyota could hold on to a V-12 BMW.
Have the BMW's artificial top speed limit flashed off and it's a 180 mph car.
None of the Toyotas you've mentioned are close to that league.

 

[mcrn]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
That is a really awful color for any BMW.
White or black would be nice.
Any 850 would leave any Toyota for dead on any road course, including those wearing the Lexus badge.
On any decent straight, the BMW would lope away, and it could outbrake any Toyota product into any corner.
If the car has been maintained and if it's seen regular use and is not a garage queen, then this might be a neat car to buy.
As others have noted, you should have an emergency fund available should something expensive need work.
You should also find a good BMW indie who has experience with the BMW V-12 and not rely upon a dealership where the techs have never touched nor even seen such a thing.
If you want it and can afford the potential downside risk, then why not?
They are cheap enough to make a new Camry look expensive.



Really? Any? Afraid not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LFA

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: mcrn

Really? Any? Afraid not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LFA


Hehe and that's the only reason Toyota made it- so that it technically exists and that someone can technically cite is as being superior to another car.

What, do you think the LFA was borne out of automotive passion rather than an about face for their notorious lack thereof? lol

 

[mcrn]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: mcrn

Really? Any? Afraid not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LFA


Hehe and that's the only reason Toyota made it- so that it technically exists and that someone can technically cite is as being superior to another car.

What, do you think the LFA was borne out of automotive passion rather than an about face for their notorious lack thereof? lol



Oh I agree but none the less.....its still faster than most cars made.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I suspect an SC400 would be competitive with the 850. A twin-turbo Supra, of course, would suck the doors off it! (On a relatively tight course...honestly, I'd bet an 850 would have trouble pacing an MR2.)


On any straight of decent length, there's no way any Toyota could hold on to a V-12 BMW.
Have the BMW's artificial top speed limit flashed off and it's a 180 mph car.
None of the Toyotas you've mentioned are close to that league.


I'd imagine that the supra twin turbo of that era could give the 850 a run for its money in all areas... And that supra was one of the few toyotas I'd ever consider to be good looking...

So the supra twin turbo would be a worthy competitor, even for the OPs money in buying a toy. Take that as heresy as you wish, I get it that they are different "classes" of car, but I couldn't care less about folks who have their thumb far enough up their rear trying to extoll class and culture to make a stink about it..

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I suspect an SC400 would be competitive with the 850. A twin-turbo Supra, of course, would suck the doors off it! (On a relatively tight course...honestly, I'd bet an 850 would have trouble pacing an MR2.)


On any straight of decent length, there's no way any Toyota could hold on to a V-12 BMW.
Have the BMW's artificial top speed limit flashed off and it's a 180 mph car.
None of the Toyotas you've mentioned are close to that league.


So is a Supra turbo...which is also 1000lbs lighter. Also note that the only 850 to make MORE power than the Supra is the CSi! An SC400 ALSO makes more power than the regular 850i...and, again, it's 700lbs lighter than the 4300lb 850.

 

[hattaresguy]

Totally different cars guys, who cares whats faster this is a GT coupe, its not about the speed its about how it does it. The Lexus SC400 would compete with the V8 version but the interior is not as nice. The cars that competed with this were the Mercedes S600 coupe, the Jag XJS V12, and maybe an Aston Martin although for that vintage they were poorly built. A Ferrari 456 maybe?

If you really want an 8 series what about the V8 version?

If you want the car buy it, but it will be a hobby vehicle. It could be a lot of fun, some guys get involved with old Mustangs, join clubs, talk Mustang, and work on them. Others do it with old BMW's.


One thing I can say about the BMW owners groups is that they are far, far more active in having meet ups than the Mercedes guys are. I also see a lot of 8 series so I suspect the model has strong enthusiast and club support.

A few years ago we were having a little Mercedes GTG and half a dozen guys with 8 series showed up. They must have been out for a drive and stumbled across us, very pretty cars.

Think of the costs another way. An equivalent new example would run about $150k, than you would get to eat a massive amount of depreciation. So say $8k into an old 850I than another $10k into it over a couple of years, sell for $8k...is pretty cheap compared to a new car!

 

[Volvohead]

As lovely as the 850i is, it is not a track car, but a powerful grand tourer with a sporty streak. It is too heavy for its engine to make up the mass difference. It is also a bit too nose heavy for serious tracking.

So, a car like a Supra TT, and quite a few other lighter cars, some with less power, are going to eat the 850i's lunch on any meaningful road track. Perhaps at the Bonneville flats, with an unlimited straightaway, the big BMW will eventually catch up.

But that does not diminish the 850i's essential goodness. It is still better than 90% of the street cars out there now, and has a very high quality level. But it's no track star, at least not in stock form.

Sorry, but as Walter would have said, that's the way it is.

 

[Volvohead]

And Vikas, it's 77F and magnificently sunny here today.

I'd be grabbing the keys to the SL before those for the 850 on a day like today.

This year, repairs (none) and maintenance have totaled under $250 on it.

It's biggest expense right now is insurance.

 

[97tbird]

Quote:
I think 96/97 are the last and most sought after years. The ugly 4 spoke steering wheel was changed to a better looking 3 spoke one


I'd like to correct myself on this. It wasn't changed to a 3 spoke, but it WAS changed to a better-looking, more compact 4-spoke steering wheel.