2019 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rental

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by VNTS
I have(wife's) a 2018 Sahara, 3.6 with D44 LSD, Selectrac, Alpine, Nav, LED, tow, heated seats, dual top. 7300 miles avg 23.5 mpg overall. On long trips get over 25 mpg. No issues so far, just changed the fluid in the diffs and t_case on saturday. Have a Volant powercore on it and catch can. It is a very nice SUV, a little pricey but gives you a 4wd convertible with off road capability, if that is what you want. They did a nice job making it more civil, wife loves it and always wanted on, so got her one for our 30th last year. Also got the life time maxcare. nice review BTW, glad you liked the 2.0T, We like orange:)
Very nice. I too am looking at an orange one, but yellow, green, and the aqua would also fill the bill. Orange is my first choice though...
 
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by MNgopher
Curious how it would have felt if it was fed 87 octane everywhere. With the Turbo, I would have been leery of feeding it 85 octane. (I use 85 octane in my NA engines in Colorado and Wyoming, but my ecoboosts get 87 minimum).
85 octane is altitude compensated and is the equivalent of 87 at sea level. The point in my using 85/87 was to see if 91 was a "requirement" or if fuel economy would suffer due to engine management pulling the timing back. There seemed to be no impact and I never experienced pinging either. YMMV!
Say What? Its a turbo engine.
 

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by Srt20
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by MNgopher
Curious how it would have felt if it was fed 87 octane everywhere. With the Turbo, I would have been leery of feeding it 85 octane. (I use 85 octane in my NA engines in Colorado and Wyoming, but my ecoboosts get 87 minimum).
85 octane is altitude compensated and is the equivalent of 87 at sea level. The point in my using 85/87 was to see if 91 was a "requirement" or if fuel economy would suffer due to engine management pulling the timing back. There seemed to be no impact and I never experienced pinging either. YMMV!
Say What? Its a turbo engine.
Yes, so? The owner's manual states 91 octane is recommended, not a requirement. I wanted to see how it performed with 87 at sea level and 85 in higher altitudes. I felt no difference whatsoever and no pinging either.
 
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Srt20
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by MNgopher
Curious how it would have felt if it was fed 87 octane everywhere. With the Turbo, I would have been leery of feeding it 85 octane. (I use 85 octane in my NA engines in Colorado and Wyoming, but my ecoboosts get 87 minimum).
85 octane is altitude compensated and is the equivalent of 87 at sea level. The point in my using 85/87 was to see if 91 was a "requirement" or if fuel economy would suffer due to engine management pulling the timing back. There seemed to be no impact and I never experienced pinging either. YMMV!
Say What? Its a turbo engine.
Yes, so? The owner's manual states 91 octane is recommended, not a requirement. I wanted to see how it performed with 87 at sea level and 85 in higher altitudes. I felt no difference whatsoever and no pinging either.
I understand what the owners manual says, I own one. And it doesnt say anywhere to run 85 octane at any level. But regardless, turbos are controlled by absolute psi. The less atmospheric psi, the more boost is made to compensate. The absolute psi is meant to be the same at all elevation (obviously within reason). So the absolute psi should be the same at sea level and at 8000 feet above sea level. That is why you run 87 octane according to the owners manual.
 

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by Srt20
I understand what the owners manual says, I own one. And it doesnt say anywhere to run 85 octane at any level. But regardless, turbos are controlled by absolute psi. The less atmospheric psi, the more boost is made to compensate. The absolute psi is meant to be the same at all elevation (obviously within reason). So the absolute psi should be the same at sea level and at 8000 feet above sea level. That is why you run 87 octane according to the owners manual.
OK, but what is supposed to happen--especially with no pinging or reduction in power? At any rate, not a super concern for me, I do not live in an area that sells 85 octane, but I am certain that nothing negative happened. Everything I read states that above 5000 feet 85 octane is the same as 87--turbocharged or not. While I would not run a steady diet of 85 or 87, it was nice to see it is possible.
 
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
I would do A LOT of research before buying a Wrangler! My business partner has one and it's been a nightmare - I was thinking about one until he purchased his and I started looking into them. Lots of design/engineering and build quality issues. Jeep dealerships also tend to be a nightmare - apparently nothing is ever reproducible or fixable. Here is good place to start - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.49/
I've been involved in discussions like this in the past. When you think of how many millions of JK/JKU Wranglers are running around and add to it the JL/JLU there aren't as many problems as one would think % wise. People often join message boards to complain, very few join to brag about how great their vehicle is. Or they join to seek answers to problems, but not to offer solutions, usually only enthusiasts do that, not the average Joe.
It's a fact the JEEP brand has a lower reliability rating then the industry average and has been like this for it's entire existence. Being said it's not a lemon brand just expect you have a better chance of issues.
 
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Reddy45
No amount of mods or light bars will get over the fact that the Jeep design/shape makes absolutely no sense for a consumer level vehicle that goes onto 70mph+ interstate roads.
Note these all have backup cameras, but the light output is not enough to light up the area for the camera to see. A light bar or upgraded lights would make a huge difference.
I was mostly commenting on how Jeep ownership has almost become formulaic in recent years, but in a way that never addresses the fact that it's shaped like a brick and has extremely agricultural roots in its design. Live in area without trails/mountains Buy $30K Jeep Add lift Add big wheel/tire package Add eBay light bars Add winch Add high lift jack Add step bars Add bull bar, more LED lights Increase lift Add even bigger wheel/tire package Where I live, I can't go 5 minutes driving around without seeing one like this. They're all driven by soccer moms too. By the time you mod one out, for all the money spent, you could have just bought a used Mercedes G Wagon since that's what everyone apparently is trying to replicate with the mods anyway.
 

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by Reddy45
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Reddy45
No amount of mods or light bars will get over the fact that the Jeep design/shape makes absolutely no sense for a consumer level vehicle that goes onto 70mph+ interstate roads.
Note these all have backup cameras, but the light output is not enough to light up the area for the camera to see. A light bar or upgraded lights would make a huge difference.
I was mostly commenting on how Jeep ownership has almost become formulaic in recent years, but in a way that never addresses the fact that it's shaped like a brick and has extremely agricultural roots in its design. Live in area without trails/mountains Buy $30K Jeep Add lift Add big wheel/tire package Add eBay light bars Add winch Add high lift jack Add step bars Add bull bar, more LED lights Increase lift Add even bigger wheel/tire package Where I live, I can't go 5 minutes driving around without seeing one like this. They're all driven by soccer moms too. By the time you mod one out, for all the money spent, you could have just bought a used Mercedes G Wagon since that's what everyone apparently is trying to replicate with the mods anyway.
LOL - based upon my experience with Mercedes, it would be questionable as to which one would actually cost more in the long run, but I get your point.
 
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Nice review. I'm also considering a Jeep for my next vehicle. I do question Jeep reliability though, but maybe it is internet "amplification" as someone said earlier.
 
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Srt20
I understand what the owners manual says, I own one. And it doesnt say anywhere to run 85 octane at any level. But regardless, turbos are controlled by absolute psi. The less atmospheric psi, the more boost is made to compensate. The absolute psi is meant to be the same at all elevation (obviously within reason). So the absolute psi should be the same at sea level and at 8000 feet above sea level. That is why you run 87 octane according to the owners manual.
OK, but what is supposed to happen--especially with no pinging or reduction in power? At any rate, not a super concern for me, I do not live in an area that sells 85 octane, but I am certain that nothing negative happened. Everything I read states that above 5000 feet 85 octane is the same as 87--turbocharged or not. While I would not run a steady diet of 85 or 87, it was nice to see it is possible.
This is incorrect for turbo'd engines. For NA engines, absolutely. We usually use 87 e-10 or 88 e-15 (88 is cheaper) in both the Jeep and my f-150 ecoboost at all elevations. Ive found 91 doesnt provide enough benefit for the price.
 
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BTW I know its extreme small sample size, but of all the vehicles Ive owned from new, the FCA vehicles have been the most reliable. Not that the Fords or GMs have been lemons, they've been pretty good, no complaints. Though the Jeep Wrangler is our first Wrangler, and its pretty low miles yet.
 
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V6 for me. You need low end grunt and torque in a Jeep for off road. No time waiting for a turbo to spool up to get power.
 
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Originally Posted by GMBoy
V6 for me. You need low end grunt and torque in a Jeep for off road. No time waiting for a turbo to spool up to get power.
You got that wrong. The 2.0T has more and quicker power down low than the V6. Its very noticeable. I own both. On the other hand, the 3.6 has very noticeable more power in higher rpm.
 
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Srt20
I understand what the owners manual says, I own one. And it doesnt say anywhere to run 85 octane at any level. But regardless, turbos are controlled by absolute psi. The less atmospheric psi, the more boost is made to compensate. The absolute psi is meant to be the same at all elevation (obviously within reason). So the absolute psi should be the same at sea level and at 8000 feet above sea level. That is why you run 87 octane according to the owners manual.
OK, but what is supposed to happen--especially with no pinging or reduction in power? At any rate, not a super concern for me, I do not live in an area that sells 85 octane, but I am certain that nothing negative happened. Everything I read states that above 5000 feet 85 octane is the same as 87--turbocharged or not. While I would not run a steady diet of 85 or 87, it was nice to see it is possible.
Have any idea of how much timing was pulled or how much power you actually did lose? Or is that based on seat of the pants only? Part of the reason turbo engines do so well at altitude is they can more easily overcome the issues higher altitude presents by shoving more air into the cylinders... meaning their decrease in power at altitude is less than NA engines, but it means that having the correct octane fuel is important. I'll leave it at the owners manual for that vehicle requires 87 octane, with no allowance for high altitude. (I say all of that as the owner of an F150 with the 2.7 that I regularly feed 87 - including in CO, WY, and MT - my NA cars got 85 out there).
 

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by MNgopher
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by Srt20
I understand what the owners manual says, I own one. And it doesnt say anywhere to run 85 octane at any level. But regardless, turbos are controlled by absolute psi. The less atmospheric psi, the more boost is made to compensate. The absolute psi is meant to be the same at all elevation (obviously within reason). So the absolute psi should be the same at sea level and at 8000 feet above sea level. That is why you run 87 octane according to the owners manual.
OK, but what is supposed to happen--especially with no pinging or reduction in power? At any rate, not a super concern for me, I do not live in an area that sells 85 octane, but I am certain that nothing negative happened. Everything I read states that above 5000 feet 85 octane is the same as 87--turbocharged or not. While I would not run a steady diet of 85 or 87, it was nice to see it is possible.
Have any idea of how much timing was pulled or how much power you actually did lose? Or is that based on seat of the pants only?
No scientific way to know, but I drove 75-85 with ease (no issues passing or with pinging under load) and the hills and ravines of WY were no match for it. In addition, the MPG did not suffer either since I had 23.6 for the whole trip with some runs of 26+MPG along the way. All of it on 87 or 85 octane gas and if it ran that good on the lower octane, then 91+ octane must add a considerable kick in the pants (IF the timing was pulled back on 85 or 87 octane).
 

CarbonSteel

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Originally Posted by GMBoy
V6 for me. You need low end grunt and torque in a Jeep for off road. No time waiting for a turbo to spool up to get power.
No spooling up; the 2.0T has an "electric motor filling in for the moment it takes the twin-scroll turbocharger to wake up, the hybrid system's torque delivery makes the Wrangler seem as if it has a 5.9-liter AMC V-8 under the hood. Peak twist, 295 pound-feet, arrives at 3000 rpm. That's 35 more pound-feet 1800 rpm earlier than the V-6 manages." The 2.0T outperforms the 3.6L in every comparison I have seen in the forums and online "We've previously tested the Wrangler's largely carryover 285-hp 3.6-liter V-6 and would go so far as to say that that Jeep is quick for a 4469-pound body-on-frame machine that appears to have been designed to help Richard Leakey hunt for Australopithecus remains. That one needed 6.8 seconds to get from zero to 60 mph. With the turbo four—closely related to the engine in the Alfa Romeo Giulia and Stelvio—the Wrangler is even quicker. Despite being slightly down on power compared with the six, it hits 60 in 6.5 seconds. It seems relevant to mention that the four is built in Termoli, Italy, and that Italians hate losing races." https://www.caranddriver.com/review...nlimited-suv-turbo-four-cylinder-hybrid/
 
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
I would do A LOT of research before buying a Wrangler! My business partner has one and it's been a nightmare - I was thinking about one until he purchased his and I started looking into them. Lots of design/engineering and build quality issues. Jeep dealerships also tend to be a nightmare - apparently nothing is ever reproducible or fixable. Here is good place to start - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.49/
I've been involved in discussions like this in the past. When you think of how many millions of JK/JKU Wranglers are running around and add to it the JL/JLU there aren't as many problems as one would think % wise. People often join message boards to complain, very few join to brag about how great their vehicle is. Or they join to seek answers to problems, but not to offer solutions, usually only enthusiasts do that, not the average Joe.
It's a fact the JEEP brand has a lower reliability rating then the industry average and has been like this for it's entire existence. Being said it's not a lemon brand just expect you have a better chance of issues.
Or if you think a little, more people tend to beat on them off road, so more chance to have problems. Also, from what I see on the JL forum are first time buyers who expect a solid axle SUV to ride like a BMW and handle like a sports car, then whine about it. on allpar there was a long time Jeep engineer from JTE and AMC days talking about benchmarking and testing Jeeps vs brand X. They have a 1 mile loop simulating Rubicon trail. Testing WK2 against other brands on this loop, a couple of them couldnt go very far as spot welds on the unibodies started to pop from the stress, so yes Jeeps may have worse reliabilty but have better standards to get the trail rated badge. I have a WJ and an Overland and both have been excellent so far. Would never hesitate to pull the trigger on a Jeep based on my experience.
 
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Originally Posted by VNTS
Also, from what I see on the JL forum are first time buyers who expect a solid axle SUV to ride like a BMW and handle like a sports car, then whine about it.
A few years ago on another forum there was a poor fool wanting to trade in his wife's four month old JK. The reason? it didn't have much trunk space, it was noisy on the interstate, and the top was hard to put up and down. I told the imbecile that in the future he might want to actually drive the bloody thing BEFORE he bought it. As for me, 45 minutes behind the wheel of a TJ convinced me that it was the off road vehicle I wanted and actually needed.
 
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
I would do A LOT of research before buying a Wrangler! My business partner has one and it's been a nightmare - I was thinking about one until he purchased his and I started looking into them. Lots of design/engineering and build quality issues. Jeep dealerships also tend to be a nightmare - apparently nothing is ever reproducible or fixable. Here is good place to start - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.49/
I've been involved in discussions like this in the past. When you think of how many millions of JK/JKU Wranglers are running around and add to it the JL/JLU there aren't as many problems as one would think % wise. People often join message boards to complain, very few join to brag about how great their vehicle is. Or they join to seek answers to problems, but not to offer solutions, usually only enthusiasts do that, not the average Joe.
Tell that to my business partner! I belong to A LOT of forums from many different models/manufactures and you're absolutely correct - they attract certain people. That said, you still DO get a sense for a model based on the number and consistency of complaints. The fact is there are many people having the exact same problems on that forum with both the absolute number and similarity of complaints being orders of magnitude greater than what I read on any other forum. Just the number of people using the lemon law is staggering. I almost NEVER read about people using the lemon law elsewhere, maybe one or two posts per year, but there's dozens trying to use it there. The OP can outright dismiss this information or not....what do I care....I own reliable vehicles.
 
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by PWMDMD
I would do A LOT of research before buying a Wrangler! My business partner has one and it's been a nightmare - I was thinking about one until he purchased his and I started looking into them. Lots of design/engineering and build quality issues. Jeep dealerships also tend to be a nightmare - apparently nothing is ever reproducible or fixable. Here is good place to start - https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/forums/issues-repairs-warranty-tsb-recalls.49/
I've been involved in discussions like this in the past. When you think of how many millions of JK/JKU Wranglers are running around and add to it the JL/JLU there aren't as many problems as one would think % wise. People often join message boards to complain, very few join to brag about how great their vehicle is. Or they join to seek answers to problems, but not to offer solutions, usually only enthusiasts do that, not the average Joe.
Tell that to my business partner! I belong to A LOT of forums from many different models/manufactures and you're absolutely correct - they attract certain people. That said, you still DO get a sense for a model based on the number and consistency of complaints. The fact is there are many people having the exact same problems on that forum with both the absolute number and similarity of complaints being orders of magnitude greater than what I read on any other forum. Just the number of people using the lemon law is staggering. I almost NEVER read about people using the lemon law elsewhere, maybe one or two posts per year, but there's dozens trying to use it there. The OP can outright dismiss this information or not....what do I care....I own reliable vehicles.
No point in me telling your partner anything, he's not posting you are. How about you tell that to the millions of Wrangler owners that haven't had problems. Trust me if I target a specific brand hunting for problems, I can find fault in any brand, including whatever you consider to be the best. I'm sure many other members can do the same with whatever brand you pick. My suggestion is continue to keep avoiding the Jeep brand, there are plenty of brands I stay clear of.
 
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