OPEC president is open to cutting oil production

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CKN

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Yes. We. Do.

The United States of America doesn't take the oil out of the ground. BP, Shell, ExxonMobil, etc. takes it out of the ground.

They own the oil, not the United States of America.

The only way "energy independence" exists is if the United States of America (that is, the government) owns the oil and can direct where the oil is going and who it is sold to.

Countries that have state-owned oil corporations can do this:
Saudi Arabia - Saudi Aramco
Russia - Gazprom
Venezuela - PDVSA
China - Sinopec

The United States can't tell Shell that they can only sell oil to American refiners for distribution in America. If Shell were a state-owned petro company, they could. If that were the case, the government could direct everything that comes out of the ground from the state-owned company goes to American refiners at set prices and can only be sold to American consumers until demand is satisfied.

That is energy independence. Until the oil industry is nationalized, it's not going to happen.

When you see a headline like: U.S. Monthly Oil Shipments to Europe Climb to Highest Since 2016

In this headline, "U.S." is being used as a location. As in, the large mass of land between Canada and Mexico where products originate from. The United States of America didn't create those products nor does it own, sell, or ship them. When you buy a Harbor Freight tool from China, you're not buying a crappy tool from the Chinese government. You're buying a tool that was made on that large land mass across the Pacific. It's a reference to the place of origin, not the government.

It's not the United States of America sending that oil to Europe. The country isn't sending it there, oil companies are. The country isn't selling it, the oil companies are. The country isn't directly profiting, the oil companies are.

Why? Because the country doesn't own the oil.

The US doesn't export cars to Australia, Ford does. The US doesn't pocket the profits when soybeans are exported to South Korea, the farmer does.

If the United States of America wants oil, it absolutely has to buy it, just like it has to buy soybeans and Ford F150s.

This is how markets work.
Yep-people don't understand that the government and ANY ONE person does not control the price of oil. It is MUCH MORE convoluted than that.
 
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We produce about the same amount of oil as we consume in this country, the problem is it all goes on the global market. Part of that energy independence could be curtailing the consumption in this country. We waste a lot as well.
Yep, especially with premature oil changes, lmao...
 

OVERKILL

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I prefer free markets and reducing/ elimination of barriers to make, sell, market , products and services.
There really aren't any "free markets" though. Everything is manipulated with regulation and incentives. It's like the headlines that claim renewables are now "the cheapest" but ignore the tax credits and REC's that make them profitable even when they tank the market price, while other generators only see the market. There is so much perversion and manipulation in place it's difficult to predict how things would work in truly free markets.

And then there's of course the issue of dumping, which China is famous for.
 
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AGREE. Plus people always like to forget the USA + Canada and a few other western countries are the cleanest operators in respect to just about any industry on earth. I am certain some will scream bloody murder and say this is a flat out lie. I been to many industrial plants and know what I have seen. The place I retired from was so clean in fact it was used as a place for other companies to send their Safety & Industrial Hygiene Specialists to tour and get instructions on to comply with massive EPA rules. It was so strick that near the end of my work days I was involved in what was called a "fugitive emissions program" where every single pipe flange, valve, pump and safety device vents had to have stainless steel metal tags on them with ID numbers to track. The EPA made several surprise inspections and the first things they wanted to see was the log books with all the ID descriptions and numbers and to be taken to random spots to see the equipment. There were rules you could be fined for because you are required to have each ID numbered equipment logged down with dates and times of any found leaks and you had so many hours / days to either make temporary repairs or shutdown equipment to fix the leakers. If you were allowed to postpone until scheduled shutdown you actually had to use special air monitoring equipment and log in the findings. This is not liquid spilling leaks which are a whole other deal. This was leaks that were so minor you only knew about them by seeing the stained white insualtion that was required to be in place on these locations. I would bet money you can not find any manufacturing / chemical or refinery plants across the world who follow such strict environmental rules that come close to these.
I did this testing when living in Houston. Using a sniffer I would hit every valve, flange, etc. Each one was tagged and readings were cataloged. Leakers were fixed immediately. I also carried around a little die set to punch replacement tags.

The sniffer considered of a handle w/gauge and sample tube, then a hose ran down to the main unit which was contained in what could be considered a small suitcase. The guts of the rig ran on propane. The unit weighed about 25lbs and had a strap so I would carry it around all day. It was always fun carrying it up the fractioning columns in the middle of summer to test the valves at the tippy top.

Wasn't as fun as playing around with a nuclear density gauge.
 

pbm

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We are seeing first hand why it's important to be energy independent. I still think we need to be looking at alternative fuels but that doesn't mean we need to abandon oil right now. Were decades at best from technology to totally stop using fossil fuel across all industries. The USA should NEVER be in a position where the energy, transportation, and other sectors can be destabilized by things we've let out of our control.
If you think energy is something "we've let out of our control" you should check out life saving antibiotic drugs....and we're dependent on our main adversary for them....unbelievable...and nobody has been held accountable for it.
 
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We are seeing first hand why it's important to be energy independent. I still think we need to be looking at alternative fuels but that doesn't mean we need to abandon oil right now. Were decades at best from technology to totally stop using fossil fuel across all industries. The USA should NEVER be in a position where the energy, transportation, and other sectors can be destabilized by things we've let out of our control.
Where do you think electricity comes from? Sorry but solar cannot produce enough power. We stuck using fossil fuels.
 
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We produce about the same amount of oil as we consume in this country, the problem is it all goes on the global market. Part of that energy independence could be curtailing the consumption in this country. We waste a lot as well.
Let me rephrase that. The US produces about 12 million bbls per day and consumes close to 20 million bbls per day. Much of the difference is made up by imports from Canada. Yes, the US also exports light oil it produces, and refined products, but imports heavy oil to help with gasoline production.
 
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If you think energy is something "we've let out of our control" you should check out life saving antibiotic drugs....and we're dependent on our main adversary for them....unbelievable...and nobody has been held accountable for it.
Agree 100%. Fuel, oil, drugs, fertilizer components, probably hundreds of other things too.
 
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Agree 100%. Fuel, oil, drugs, fertilizer components, probably hundreds of other things too.
Everything we use requires oil, there is even food grade oil made for machines that could come into close contact. Many of our gases, propane, pentane, hextane, hydrogen, etc come from cracking of crude oil. We want and use oil from the middle east bc it flows like water when heated, very little processing is required to get what products you want out. Code named sweet crude. American crude oil is heavy and requires a lot work. It's like tar
 
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We can go back to cave man days, make fire with sticks, and stones. I don't think we want to go there.
So to be clear, you think we’re at the pinnacle of innovation and invention? Think about what has been done in just the last decade. There is no way of knowing where we will be in the next 50 years. I love my diesel trucks and tractors and everything that fossil fuels provide but I don’t think anyone would be closed minded enough to say that we will rely on them forever.
 
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If you think energy is something "we've let out of our control" you should check out life saving antibiotic drugs....and we're dependent on our main adversary for them....unbelievable...and nobody has been held accountable for it.
I've had those talks amongst many in the healthcare world and it's the scariest to think of if it all hit the fan. My biggest concern would be beta blockers, insulin and mental health meds.
 
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Yes. We. Do.

The United States of America doesn't take the oil out of the ground. BP, Shell, ExxonMobil, etc. takes it out of the ground.

They own the oil, not the United States of America.

The only way "energy independence" exists is if the United States of America (that is, the government) owns the oil and can direct where the oil is going and who it is sold to.

Countries that have state-owned oil corporations can do this:
Saudi Arabia - Saudi Aramco
Russia - Gazprom
Venezuela - PDVSA
China - Sinopec

The United States can't tell Shell that they can only sell oil to American refiners for distribution in America. If Shell were a state-owned petro company, they could. If that were the case, the government could direct everything that comes out of the ground from the state-owned company goes to American refiners at set prices and can only be sold to American consumers until demand is satisfied.

That is energy independence. Until the oil industry is nationalized, it's not going to happen.

When you see a headline like: U.S. Monthly Oil Shipments to Europe Climb to Highest Since 2016

In this headline, "U.S." is being used as a location. As in, the large mass of land between Canada and Mexico where products originate from. The United States of America didn't create those products nor does it own, sell, or ship them. When you buy a Harbor Freight tool from China, you're not buying a crappy tool from the Chinese government. You're buying a tool that was made on that large land mass across the Pacific. It's a reference to the place of origin, not the government.

It's not the United States of America sending that oil to Europe. The country isn't sending it there, oil companies are. The country isn't selling it, the oil companies are. The country isn't directly profiting, the oil companies are.

Why? Because the country doesn't own the oil.

The US doesn't export cars to Australia, Ford does. The US doesn't pocket the profits when soybeans are exported to South Korea, the farmer does.

If the United States of America wants oil, it absolutely has to buy it, just like it has to buy soybeans and Ford F150s.

This is how markets work.
This right here is what a lot of people DO NOT UNDERSTAND. The "Drill Baby Drill" thing is a farce. "IF" the USA owned all the oil, then it would be different. But "WE" don't. Spot on MrHorsepower!!!
 
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