OPEC conciders ditching the U.S. Dollar

[Gary Allan]

I recall that we discussed this when it was in the proposal or approved stage.

Quote:
There must be some serious brown paper bags changing hands for such decisions to make it to Contract.


Well, we obviously haven't viewed the extended implications of such an integrated operation. You have to consider many things very carefully.

Yes, OZ is as corrupt as the rest of us. It's really comically obvious when you think about it. Since we can't be alone in our view ...it kinda leads me back to everything being a show. The real issues don't matter a whole lot ..unless they get in the way ..then you just produce a new show ..pass the same stuffed brown bags out dealing with it ...play it out until some side effect gets too bad ...produce a new show.

 

[Schmoe]

This got me to really thinking, maybe not at the higher educated level as others, being educated in sciences and not business/economics, but aren't there going to be massive tradeoffs. The last time I looked, we are still the most powerful economy in the world. So the dollar declines and people STOP buying imported stuff as much, talking about luxuries here. That will have a trickle down economical affect worldwide, no? At some point, others will have to stop and think that they like to eat, right? Who produces the most food in the world? Hmmmmm, let's see....we need your crude but you need to eat.....screw the exchange rate...how hungry are you? Sure, that's pretty crude, but a lot worse has happened to the U.S. than that.....you know what I'm talking about without saying it. We might not drive around as much but at least we won't go hungry. Some where, the buck and the b.s. will have to stop. We didn't get where we are at today for being Mr. Nice Guy. As long as we have a healthy military, we'll always have allies in the world if they want us watch their back.

 

[Gary Allan]

Schmoe ..are you still under the impression that there's any "we" to this thing? How much worse does it have to get here? "We" is only when there's a price to be paid ..a hardship to endure. "We" is always absent when the benefit is distributed.

Quote:
We might not drive around as much but at least we won't go hungry.


Don't count on it.

 

[Schmoe]

Dude, your comments seem to link that we are all doomed and gloomed. I just ain't buying it. Yeah, this may be the neatherdal part of me, but if it comes down to survial of the fitess, guess where I live. All this to me and from what I've read on other internet sources, point to one thing....oil. Sure, we consume the most resources than any other nation. But, mind you, what has that made us? The number one economy in the world. It's not like we've tried to play our trump card and rule the world as other leaders have tried in the past, but nonetheless, we are. That's why so many folks out there hate us. That translates to me one thing, jealousy. We stepped up to the plate during WWII when we didn't want to at first. But then it was literally thrown at us and we came together and whipped arshe. After that, we again stepped up to the plate and helped out the people that we defeated. What does that say? Now all of a sudden we are worthless in the eyes of the world? Yeah, right. Bring it.

 

[Shannow]

Schmoe,
regarding the benevolent superpower, and we are all jealous.

The US has a LONG history of meddling rather than outright control, even in my own country.

That tends to get the locals a little peeved.

 

[Schmoe]

Meddling, yes...BUT what have we actually done to the country? Did we take over? No. Did we impose our laws or take over? No. Geesh, look what Spain and the UK did back "in the day", a lot worse things than the U.S. You don't hear that ever coming up much. I just ain't buying it.

 

[Shannow]

Yeah whatever.

 

[Kernel Potter]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Wasn't the direct death toll from Chernobyl less than 100 ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article563041.ece

Yes there will be some cancers down the track which could laregly have been circumvented by medical intervention early on.

Animals have moved back in, happy to not be molested by humans.

As Al said, a coal station can release equivalent of 20 tonnes p.a. of radioactive stuff into the environment annually.

And we make a big mess in many other ways.


All I have to say is "WOW". I never realized the actual reality of a nuclear power plant melt down and all its radiation and other fallout was like, say, stubbing one's toe. I never realized that we as humans had less to fear from large nuclear fallout than we do from mosquitoes. What was I missing?

 

[Al]

What you are missing is that there are "risks" vs "benefits" in anything. The "Benefits" in using Nukes is that the world may not become dark/cold/poluted/third world/cinder with alternate sources of Power. Nuclear offers a very large chunk of this.

The "risks" in nuclear power is that there could be nuclear acccidents. Did you notice that the U.S.'s worst Nuke accident did not involve any loss of life and probably not even one future cancer death? Why?...the reactor even though it melted down was housed in an inner concrete shield 3 feet thick. The Reactor Building houses the Reactor (with 3 feet containment walls) and can withstand an inner presssure of 65PSI.

Also Nukes are an order of magnitude safer since the TMI accident.

And maybe you are also "missing" the fact that tens's of thousands of cancer deaths occurr in the U.S. bc of Coal Pollution/radiation. Funnyt that folks forget about that little item. There are no totally free lunches.

 

[Gary Allan]

The advantage of nuke power is that, aside from the residuals, it adds nothing to the environment other than heat. Managing that waste heat in the most efficient manner would make them even more innocuous. Dealing with the residuals currently offers no preferred practical remedy ..but I offer, we're often geared to not considering the impractical remedies ...ignoring that they are, ultimately, remedies.

There's no reason for 40,000 residents within 10 miles of a nuke plant using 500-1000 gallons of petroleum annually to heat their houses. There's no reason for any facility burning NG or fuel oil to create steam when 10 miles away their throwing it away.

Would it be a tremendous challenge in terms of cost to integrate these producers and consumers for greater utilization of these wasted resources? Sure. Compare that to replacing a planet.

 

[pbm]

Schmoe:
Your optimism is admirable but I'm a bit more pessimistic.
I see an America where 40 years of 'dumbing down' is finally
catching up with us. The average American is burdened with debt and yet they still think their parents were stupid because they didn't buy things they couldn't afford. People are 'stressed' to the max (and highly medicated) trying to keep up with their neighbors in materialism. Women may have been 'liberated' in the 60's but children (and families) have paid the price. I could go on. It's Thanksgiving today and rather than being thankful for health, family etc...most people that I know are disappointed for not having 'stuff'. Unethical behavior becomes justified in pursuit of materialism yada, yada, yada. It's a sad state of affairs when the best we can do is Hillary Clinton and Rudy Guiliani as Presidential hopefuls.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Schmoe
Meddling, yes...BUT what have we actually done to the country? Did we take over? No. Did we impose our laws or take over? No. Geesh, look what Spain and the UK did back "in the day", a lot worse things than the U.S. You don't hear that ever coming up much. I just ain't buying it.


When it comes on the air, take a good look at The Glass House. A new young inmate arrives. Vic Morrow treats him real nice. The kid is happy that Vic is his pal ..since he's the big boss in the prison. Fast forward ..Vic gives the kid a guitar ...the kids playing away smiling. Then Vic says, "Kid ..there's only two things that I can't get in here. One's a helicopter." (in the background, 3 enormous men named Ajax laugh loadly with Vic "Hahahahhahah". Then Vic says, "The other's a woman."

All of a sudden, the kid figures it all out ...gets a scared look on his face. Vic, to comfort him says, "Hey ..it's either me ...or them three ."

Sometimes choices are due to prevailing pressure and it often gets confused with a "favorable" choice.

We are the head of an industrial cartel. Everyone, in one form or another will do exactly what we want ..or suffer the consequences. No one has ever had any benefit of merit from us if it did not serve our best interest in either resources or strategic position. If Oz wasn't part of our Pacific defense umbrella ...they could rot for all we care.