I heard it was more like 15,000 miles. Can someone quote a manual. I checked a 2022 M5 manual and it said when the service light comes on.
One oil for multiple BMW's?
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It was 15k until 2012. But BMW underestimated sulfur levels in the North American gas. Then they dialed back to 10k/1yr. Now I think it is 10k/2yrs.
Manual is irrelevant if manufacturer changes interval. My manual says 15k, but BMW changed it to 10k.
I personaly own a 240k mile n52. It runs on fuch gt1 pro c3 5w30. In the eu 5w30 was for n52.
I am not sure if you can get all those engines on one oil if the b58 requires 0w20.
If you would want to have them all on one oil i would try to look for a bmw b58 ll14 ll17? approved 0w30.
I would not be comfortable with putting 0w20 in my n52. 0w30 has been done before however.
Otherwise i would just put 5w30 in the n52 n55 like it should be and put the b58 0w20 in it. This however does not get you to using only one oil ofcourse.
I am not sure if you can get all those engines on one oil if the b58 requires 0w20.
If you would want to have them all on one oil i would try to look for a bmw b58 ll14 ll17? approved 0w30.
I would not be comfortable with putting 0w20 in my n52. 0w30 has been done before however.
Otherwise i would just put 5w30 in the n52 n55 like it should be and put the b58 0w20 in it. This however does not get you to using only one oil ofcourse.
Okay..I was off by a year, but as Edy already said they may have moved that out to 2 yrs or 10k miles.
B58 is ok to run HTHS 3.5 and up.
LL17 is strictly 0W20.
N52 absolutely nothing below HTHS 3.
N55 ABSOLUTELY not below 3.5, and higher the better!!!
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This is what I've been running. But somehow I've got it in my head that a LL-01 oil might be a better choice than a LL-04.
HAHA....I think you figured me out!
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The 440 manual (B58) states that 0W-20 and 0W-30 are approved and that either LL-01FE or LL-14 FE+ are fine too. I just got the 440 and getting ready for an oil change and trying to avoid stocking another oil. But, I think it may be best.
Why?
The only reason (with regard to the engines you mentioned) I see
is a matter of the past - elevated sulphur content of fuel, which is
no longer an issue in the US.
That's the reason why BMW never officially recommended LL-04 for
gas engines. They only did for Diesels.
Today BMW recommend thinner oils like LL-17, but that's for mileage
and CO2 reasons, and they still allow LL-01 and LL-04 for B48 and B58
on most markets, see the attached files on my previous post.
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Here is something on sulfur in gasoline in the USA. Apparently It got reduced to 10 ppm 5 years ago.
It's a little more complicated than that. There was a 3-year phase in period.
An Updated Guide to EPA’s Tier 3 Gasoline Sulfur Standards - Stillwater Associates
January 5, 2020 by Mike Leister and E.J. Ledet Effective January 1, 2017, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) began requiring all U.S. gasoline to meet an annual 10 parts per million (ppm) average sulfur requirement as part of its new Tier 3 vehicle and fuel regulations. (Stillwater...
stillwaterassociates.com
.
Just a FYI 930.engineering in post #10 put up an internal document from BMWAG titled "Technically Suitable Engine Oils". LL01/LL04 are fine for the B58. The US manual doesn't say that because back in 2015-2016 a corporate decision was made to move the fleet to thinner oils (i.e. LL01FE). CAFE penalties are steep and automakers don't want to get into trouble when they certify a car on a thinner oil yet recommend one which is thicker.
So - just add a snag.... I've been thinking about making a longer post just about this. I have a 2011 N55. There's lots of internet FUD about "early" N55s and rod bearings. There's also lots out there about N63 and S63s simply seizing while driving or not starting one day with no previous symptoms or questionable UOA results. Bearing and crank part numbers are unchanged over the years but the block P/Ns were updated every few months in the early years.
I have recently heard more chatter from live persons (not just the Internet) who are rebuilding BMWs with spun bearings the claim is that part of the equation is tight bearing clearances and insufficient oiling when using "thicker oils", particularly bearing #6. I have also heard some claims that GTL oils can be "dry" (the comment reminded me of ULSD discussions here 10-15 years ago and the need for additives for lubricity - it's diesel OIL yet was "dry") and contributes to wear issues in the Valvetronic system (and doesn't help the bearing issue). The GTL comment might be total crap.
When I read "the thicker the better" for an N55 - I'm not so sure about that. That might be better for everything except the rod bearings in factory form, but hey those are important!
ANYWAYS - these recent conversations had me looking a little nervously at my Canada (frequently cold) daily driver 2011 N55 now running PP Euro 5W40 and wondering if BMWs FE lineup wouldn't be a better idea, although harder to get from your local auto parts store than LL-01 is. Or maybe I should go back to Edge 0W30 A3/B3 (today's "GC" I believe) even though it lost LL-01 (2018). I believe LL-01FE is on the list for every since engine mentioned in the OP - maybe worth thinking about depending on how they're driven and your climate.
I'm a little annoyed that there's lots of talk about a high incidence of problems, but no definitive explanation or causes even 11 years after production. Everything is perfect until one day it's garbage, even on factory-certified oil with frequent changes and UOAs. It would be interesting to have data on the frequency of rod bearing failures on N55s running LL-01FE or LL-12FE compared to LL-01.
I have recently heard more chatter from live persons (not just the Internet) who are rebuilding BMWs with spun bearings the claim is that part of the equation is tight bearing clearances and insufficient oiling when using "thicker oils", particularly bearing #6. I have also heard some claims that GTL oils can be "dry" (the comment reminded me of ULSD discussions here 10-15 years ago and the need for additives for lubricity - it's diesel OIL yet was "dry") and contributes to wear issues in the Valvetronic system (and doesn't help the bearing issue). The GTL comment might be total crap.
When I read "the thicker the better" for an N55 - I'm not so sure about that. That might be better for everything except the rod bearings in factory form, but hey those are important!
ANYWAYS - these recent conversations had me looking a little nervously at my Canada (frequently cold) daily driver 2011 N55 now running PP Euro 5W40 and wondering if BMWs FE lineup wouldn't be a better idea, although harder to get from your local auto parts store than LL-01 is. Or maybe I should go back to Edge 0W30 A3/B3 (today's "GC" I believe) even though it lost LL-01 (2018). I believe LL-01FE is on the list for every since engine mentioned in the OP - maybe worth thinking about depending on how they're driven and your climate.
I'm a little annoyed that there's lots of talk about a high incidence of problems, but no definitive explanation or causes even 11 years after production. Everything is perfect until one day it's garbage, even on factory-certified oil with frequent changes and UOAs. It would be interesting to have data on the frequency of rod bearing failures on N55s running LL-01FE or LL-12FE compared to LL-01.
It's always hard to know what's really going on. There are certain variables which we are unaware of such as whether the engine was tuned or abused by the current or previous owner? I've read that it's suspected that debris enters the engine due the OFHG change causing an eventual failure or the oil pump loses prime. I've read with regards to the N55 beginning in MY 2014 the bearings were changed to those used with the S55 which does not have problems. Ultimately it could just be another bearing/engineering issue which BMW has gained a bad reputation for.
Still overthinking it, guys...
You really can't go wrong with a stout 5w30 like PP Euro L. When it gets really cold up in Canuckistan, you can always spring for the PP Euro LX that comes in a 0w30.
I believe the HTHS rating matters more than the grade, which is why the PP Euro L gets my vote every time.
You really can't go wrong with a stout 5w30 like PP Euro L. When it gets really cold up in Canuckistan, you can always spring for the PP Euro LX that comes in a 0w30.
I believe the HTHS rating matters more than the grade, which is why the PP Euro L gets my vote every time.
I've been checking the European BMW websites to see what oils they are using in their bimmers with the B46/B58 engines. No one is running the 0w20 water. In fact, BMW tells owner of European bimners to use a 5w30! We in the US are told to use 0w20 so BMW can meet its CAFE requirements. Period.
Absolute junk that talk!
First, rod bearings in N55 until 2014 are sensitive to oil starvation bcs. multiple reasons.
Mainly, one or several OFHG changes can lead to seizing. The reason for that is that the N55 oil pump is variable and in idle works in efficiency mode. During cranking, it works in full mode. That is why after OFHG change, ESPECIALLY on engines that are equipped with radiator (external) type of oil cooler, priming of oil pump is necessary. But, most people, especially DIY and indy shops are not aware of that. Then one day they do an oil change which pushes the rod bearing over the edge.
Another problem is oil starvation during high G loads in left turns. Both N54 and N55 are susceptible to this on track, especially with modified suspension and track tires (UTOQ 200 and 100). Those guys if they track cars are facing oil starvation that mostly affects RWD vehicles with N55 (xDrive has a different oil pan that serves as a baffle).
That talk about clearances, so how does lubrication work during warm-up phase? At 90c LL01FE might be thick as regular LL01 at 100c. At 110-120c, which is the normal operating temperature of oil on N55, your PP Euro is much thinner than at 100c.
If you want better cold starting oil, go 0W30 or 0W40 Castrol. Pennzoil also makes 0W40.
I was just looking at those options in the last couple of days. LX has no BMW applications listed on it at all (no cert, no "formulated to meet", no "suitable for use where X is required", no "recommended for") - NOTHING. Which I found a little surprising. I see that L has LL-04, and was something I was considering when I was choosing a new oil post 2018 when Castrol 0W40 became unavailable here.
HTHS matters more than grade for some things, such as where the failure is due to the oil not being up to the task. The implication of what I've recently been told is that there is insufficient oil present due to too-high viscosity ("grade" according to your post). By this they mean that the bearing clearances and the oil passages which feed them are undersized and on cold starts there is insufficient oil for proper bearing lubrication. Thicker isn't the solution to this, if this is true.
The more common BITOG thoughts are that HTHS is too low, or grade too light, and there was insufficient oiling of the bearings because the oil was too weak - that's not what my recent research is suggesting. A solution I've heard from rebuilders is to "proactively rebuild with sufficiently larger bearing clearance, run 5W40 and be happy for life". Of course they're in the rebuilding business so is their position trustworthy? And how does that fix potentially undersized oil supply journals in the block? It doesn't.
Like you, I'm aware of all of this and have been circulating that info in my "circles" online (including here). I did my OFHG late last fall and "double primed" despite only having the oil/coolant heat exchanger design. So far so good, but only 3,000km down the road since then.
OFHG jobs are absolutely one of the risks, and I have personally read several accounts of 2011 N55 bearing failures which occurred "suddenly" and "without warning" and more discussion reveals that there was an OFHG job 1000 miles before the seize. I've also been reading lots of accounts where there is no OFHG job.
I've never read a track-based bearing failure account. If they were all in sweeping left hand turns on the track I wouldn't even be concerned.
I follow you 100% on thickness at the various temperatures. I changed my coolant temperature target to 98C to keep oil temps around 100C but I might stop doing that. I didn't intend to take the thread way off topic, but just point out that an LL-01FE is likely to have high HTHS considering the viscosity while perhaps having a positive effect on any engines in the fleet with less-than-stellar rod bearing track records. Whether there's a point in considering it all depends on the true nature of the bearing issues and if there's any truth to the "too thick" possibility for certain model year ranges.
The track problems with N54/55 are widely known. But if you don’t track, don’t worry
As for sudden death it is incremental degradation, to best of my knowledge. I was talking to some BMW techs and they think it eventually leads to damage with OFHG changes where priming is not done and other oil issues.
I personally would run Castrol Edge 0W30/40 oils in it.
Edge 0W40 was removed from the Canadian market. Edge 0W30 A3 is hard to find (e.g. if there's even a spot on the shelf for it, it's empty) and really pricey in my area ($19/L), and is why I switched to Edge 0W40 several years ago. The PDS for Edge 0W30 still seems to show API SL, so is it safe to presume this is the same "GC" which carried LL-01 for many years in the past until the LL test spec was revised in 2018?
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