$10 for 4 OEM pre-gaped copper plugs from the dealer once a year. I tried 3 or 4 different wiz-bang plugs and non ran as well as the old OEM stand-by's. 10 minutes and $10 a year is cheap insurance.
One of the Worst Selling Points, New Vehicles
- Thread starter Chispas
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And that's where I'll argue with you. There should be no transfer if molecules at all, only of electrons.
Yeah, the whole positive/negative thing was an arbatrary choice by Ben Franklin (or so I'm told). He had a 50/50 chance, and he got it wrong, hence we have conventional flow and electron flow. If you read www.allaboutcircuits.com, they use electron flow for everything, so you get used to thinking of things both ways.
Well, I as an engineer think you're all making this way too complicated. Yes, some materials conduct electricity better because they have more "free" (loose?) electrons swimming around. More hot potatoes to pass around, if you will. But at the currents your dealing with, it really doesn't matter.
What's the resistance of the gap? That's what we're "overcoming" to make the spark. Does the resistance of the wires matter? I don't know, maybe so they don't heat up so much, that would be the only thing I can think of.
Harder, more stable metals resist "wear" (heat, spark, vaporization, etc.) better than copper so they last longer. Simple as that.
What's the resistance of the gap? That's what we're "overcoming" to make the spark. Does the resistance of the wires matter? I don't know, maybe so they don't heat up so much, that would be the only thing I can think of.
Harder, more stable metals resist "wear" (heat, spark, vaporization, etc.) better than copper so they last longer. Simple as that.
Ionization...
That's what I meant, sorry for causing the uproar, it's been another sleepness night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionization
More electrons/protons means long plug life.
I don't think it's heat that wears the electrodes, look at the temps that Ir, and it's alloys, are good for.
And as my physics teacher put it, current is like flow and resistance creates pressure.
Do you guys just not like me or what?
That's what I meant, sorry for causing the uproar, it's been another sleepness night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionization
More electrons/protons means long plug life.
I don't think it's heat that wears the electrodes, look at the temps that Ir, and it's alloys, are good for.
And as my physics teacher put it, current is like flow and resistance creates pressure.
Do you guys just not like me or what?
OK, I'm no engineer, but how does ionization fit into all of this? Sure, you may be ionizing the air in the gap, but that's all I can come up with. Someone help me out here.
And "More electrons/protons means long plug life." Um, what? That makes no sense at all. Explanation?
Voltage is a difference in electrical potential. It require resistance to exist, but it is not created by resistance.
And "More electrons/protons means long plug life." Um, what? That makes no sense at all. Explanation?
Voltage is a difference in electrical potential. It require resistance to exist, but it is not created by resistance.
I believe the erosion occurs not as a direct result of losing electrons briefly, but because when the conductor is ionized, it may be more willing to chemically react with other elements in the environment.
So it's not the loss of electrons, but a conductors changed level of ionization that may (and I use the weasle word, may) encourage erosion of the conductor due to chemical reactions.
So it's not the loss of electrons, but a conductors changed level of ionization that may (and I use the weasle word, may) encourage erosion of the conductor due to chemical reactions.
Ok, Voltage, Resistance and Current.
V=IR
or Voltage = Current * Resistance.
Voltage is directly related to current and resistance.
V=IR
or Voltage = Current * Resistance.
Voltage is directly related to current and resistance.
Not really. I'm trying to dig up 20+ year old EE knowlege that I've not really used in almost as many years.
I agree, if there was no resistance, the difference in potential is 0, and I can prove it mathematically
I agree, if there was no resistance, the difference in potential is 0, and I can prove it mathematically
V = IR. If R = zero, so does the voltage, yes.
So in away resistance (and charge, Q) create voltage (or potential).
Confused yet?
In the water analogy (my teacher likened it to Bernoulli's equation), voltage can be compared to pressure, flow is the amount of current (I) and x-sectional area (inversely) relates to resistance.
It's just an analogy to help wrap your head around hings, it's not perfect.
As I had understood it the arc is ionizing the molecules of the center electrode and depositing them onto the ground electrode.
With more protons (and therefore electrons) it seems like the center electrode would be more wear resistant.
Look at where iridium and platinum are on the periodic table...
What's always bothered/confused me is that electron flow is the opposite direction of current (they guessed wrong way back when).
And if you have the negative and positive of a coil backwards the sparks will jump the wrong direction and wear the wrong electrode.
I guess it makes sense that the electrodes would ionize oppositely with an opposite current.
EE's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've found almost no direct info about this and have drawn these conclusions from my limited knowledge of EM-physics.
And sorry if this just makes zero sense, b/c that would = how much sleep I've had.
So in away resistance (and charge, Q) create voltage (or potential).
Confused yet?
In the water analogy (my teacher likened it to Bernoulli's equation), voltage can be compared to pressure, flow is the amount of current (I) and x-sectional area (inversely) relates to resistance.
It's just an analogy to help wrap your head around hings, it's not perfect.
As I had understood it the arc is ionizing the molecules of the center electrode and depositing them onto the ground electrode.
With more protons (and therefore electrons) it seems like the center electrode would be more wear resistant.
Look at where iridium and platinum are on the periodic table...
What's always bothered/confused me is that electron flow is the opposite direction of current (they guessed wrong way back when).
And if you have the negative and positive of a coil backwards the sparks will jump the wrong direction and wear the wrong electrode.
I guess it makes sense that the electrodes would ionize oppositely with an opposite current.
EE's. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I've found almost no direct info about this and have drawn these conclusions from my limited knowledge of EM-physics.
And sorry if this just makes zero sense, b/c that would = how much sleep I've had.
My Pontiac Vibes come with Iridium/Platinum plugs as OE equipment. I pulled the first set at 250,000km and they still looked like new. So now I'm installing NGK Laser Iridium plugs in my Montanas. Changing the plugs in these vans is a painstaking 2 hour job so "lifetime" plugs are just what the doctor ordered.
[ August 26, 2006, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: olympic ]
[ August 26, 2006, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: olympic ]
Good point rjundi. If you don't like platiniums, rip them out and put in coppers. Don't cry to me if you eventually strip a thread with all your plug changing. Wonder if I will even need to make the second plug change?
Chispas, You do not regap exotic metal spark plugs. Once you heat an exotic metal plug they get very brittle and often will break either while regaping or after instalation. The whole reason for useing exotic metals is their resistance to heat/gas errossin as compared to other lesser metals. I would look up the physical charteristics or Iridium if I were you. If you do not belive me ask the spark plug manufactures as they have no reason to mislead you they could care less how often you pop your hood!
John Browning, what is your advice for anti-seizing
in aluminum heads ?
I thought removing the spark plugs after several
thousand miles, applying anti-seize compound was
the best recommendation...
in aluminum heads ?
I thought removing the spark plugs after several
thousand miles, applying anti-seize compound was
the best recommendation...
Almost every engine I have everowned or my family has owned has aluminum heads. I have never used anti-sieze on the threads and have never had a problem. AC/Delco and Bosch both recomend against useing anti-sieze. If you are useing a quality spark plug the threads should be nickle plated the nickle plateing is the anti-sieze. I blame AutoZone for the wide spread use of anti-sieze. Each packet of their lube cost them about $.02-$.07 and they charge $.99-$1.06. In some states like Michigan they will demote you or not promote you if you do not sell enough of these packets and they will harass you daily to push the stuff. Anti-sieze,boot grease, radiator hose grease, battery protectant,brake lube etc......
Hmmmmmmmm, precious metal spark plugs -- drive-off depreciation --- which would really qualify as on of the worst selling points for a new car???
2004 Dodge 5.7L Hemi reccommended sparkplug change interval 30,000 miles. 16 sparkplugs, 2 per cylinder. Lots of Dodge Hemi folks using those expensive Iridium plugs, they are to rich for my blood.
Changed them myself, used the OEM Champion or Autolite right now I am not certain which one.
Yes! I used Neversieze on the threads, figured it was like giving a dead man an enema. Might not help, but it for dang sure won't hurt!
Changed them myself, used the OEM Champion or Autolite right now I am not certain which one.
Yes! I used Neversieze on the threads, figured it was like giving a dead man an enema. Might not help, but it for dang sure won't hurt!
Patman
Staff member
My 98 Corvette came with platinum 100k plugs and when I first got the car in August 2004 I took it in for a dyno tuning session. They also had a scan tool hooked up and they immediately noticed 7 degrees of knock retard. So I pulled out one of the plugs and it was terrible! The platinum "puck" was completely gone! And the plugs only had 32k on them! So I pulled out all 8 and every one of them was the same. I replaced them with NGK coppers and on the very next dyno run (and all of the dyno runs) the knock retard went to zero.
I now run NGK TR55 copper plugs and change them every year. I'd rather do it this way than to go with more expensive plugs and leave them in longer, as I fear they would be too hard to remove after a long time.
I now run NGK TR55 copper plugs and change them every year. I'd rather do it this way than to go with more expensive plugs and leave them in longer, as I fear they would be too hard to remove after a long time.
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