One month with the Moccamaster Thermal.

[Hermann]

It has been a month since I started using my Moccamaster from the 30% off Amazon Black Friday sale.

The coffee maker arrived missing the cap to seal the thermal carafe and the sample of the Dezcal descaler. It had not been opened.

There is a learning scale on this brewer. After 30 or so full brews I have finally arrived at a formula for my "daily driver" coffee, which is Tim Horton's Red Bag whole bean. It is a lighter medium roast that has not removed the more subtle notes of the coffee. I truly enjoy this coffee as a daily driver. This morning brew was the full 40 oz of water and 62 grams of freshly ground coffee ground medium course. The result was very flavorful, with no "It's Too Strong" cringe.

My luck with speciality stuff is mixed. Have had some great brews and some OMG, what did I do to ruin this $15 lb coffee. Trader Joe's more expensive single source coffees have been very good. When I use Peaberry beans the extra spice notes are more obvious. I'm beginning to sense that the Technivorm does not do Dark Roasts well, or I have not been able to adjust the ratios correctly.

There is 20 days left to return it. Doubt if that happens as my DD results are so good. I have found the best way to pre-heat the thermal Carafe is to brew a few cups of hot water. Right before starting the brew, I pour the hot water into my seasoned coffee mug to pre-heat it, which keeps my brew at a enjoyable temp for about 4-5 hours. Everything is pre-heated with just 18 oz of water. It also removes the stale water that is still in the copper heater from the previous brew. The brew basket also gets a good 195° rinsing Plus the machine is pre-heated so it starts pumping in about 10 seconds when it restarts to brew making the first sprays on the coffee bed a few degrees warmer, in theory.

Overall I'm satisfied, just wish I could get better and more consistent results with "Premium" coffee. This a brewer that makes good coffee if you turn it on and let the machine do the job. Love the fact that personal involvement is allowed and encouraged. 90% of my brews are stirred after a bloom phase then I put the lid on and enjoy the results when it's done.

 

[mrsilv04]

I enjoy my coffee, but I am so glad that I don't put myself through this every morning. I don't function at this level at 4:30-5am.

 

[john_pifer]

Nice post!

What grinder are you using? I can't remember if you've mentioned it in previous posts.

With darker roasts, suggest grinding coarser and using a shorter ratio (the ratio you mentioned that you're using is very long - approximately 20:1).

I'd go several steps coarser on the grinder and try a 17:1 ratio. Even 16:1.

Coarser grind on darker roasts will mute some of the more harsh and bitter flavors, without taking away from the full body that a lot of people who drink dark roasts want.

You won't underextract. Dark roasts are much more soluble and easier to extract than lighter roasts.

BTW - $15/lb ($.94/oz) is a deal! The specialty coffee I've been buying lately ranges from around $1.50/oz to $2/oz before tax and any shipping I pay.

P.S. I also stir/excavate to get all the grounds wet.

 

[Hermann]

My grinder is a Jura Capresso Infinity conical burr 560.05 with the die-cast case. It is set to the void between Medium and Course for my DD. My DD is a 10-15 minute prep. If I'm in the mood to experiment I let the grounds bloom for a couple min. Then let it rip. The closeable spout on the brew basket makes blooming easy. My next speciality will be lighter roast to see if it makes more consistent coffee.

 

[Rand]

You have inspired me to try this nasty komodo dragon roast from starbucks again
I was slumming it until I had time and weather to roast more beans.
going to change from a 44 to a 33 on the grinder and make it 32grams for 22oz water

hopefully that mutes some of the dark roast burnt flavor.
if not I'll go even coarser.

My beans I use a 46 grind (very edge of drip on fine side) and about 27 grams for the same 22oz water.

Either way in 3 days the beans I roasted today will be ready for consumption.

 

[Cropduster172]

Don't sweat the missing Dezcal. You can get a 2lb. bag of citric acid on Amazon for $10. It will last you years. It's the primary ingredient in almost every descaler. 3-4 tablespoons dissolved in a full carafe of hot water and you're good to go.
Are you taking the carafe with you? I would think Moccamaster US customer service would make it right for you with a new stopper. Or?
I'm going on 3 years with the identical two I bought... CDGT model. Not sure they make it anymore.
I'm a bit less precise with my AM process than you.
Trader Joe's always has a decent selection and usually with something new. I like that.

 

[Rand]

33grams on a slightly less 21oz seems about right (setting 33 coarse edge of drip almost to the "perc" section on my
kitchenaid KCG8433BM
Does seem to mute out the bitters abit.. less burnt still tastes very dark roast.

 

[Cropduster172]

33grams on a slightly less 21oz seems about right (setting 33 coarse edge of drip almost to the "perc" section on my
kitchenaid KCG8433BM
Does seem to mute out the bitters abit.. less burnt still tastes very dark roast.
View attachment 266504

That's a nice grinder.
I've got to say though, I'm very pleased with my Baratza Encore for drip and I just replaced a Delonghi Ariete with an Oxo at our beach house. Seems fine and way more quiet than the Baratza.

 

[alarmguy]

@Cropduster172

Just came in/ Will fire it up Thursday morning if not sooner.

PS, Wife and I happy with the Amazon Dark Roast Beans, so will hold there for a while anyway.

 

[Cropduster172]

@Cropduster172

Just came in/ Will fire it up Thursday morning if not sooner.
View attachment 266527

PS, Wife and I happy with the Amazon Dark Roast Beans, so will hold there for a while anyway.

Excellent
I'm finishing up a bag of those on your suggestion. Quite good.
What grinder are you using?

 

[Rand]

That's a nice grinder.
I've got to say though, I'm very pleased with my Baratza Encore for drip and I just replaced a Delonghi Ariete with an Oxo at our beach house. Seems fine and way more quiet than the Baratza.

I had the OG. Breville smart grinder xl
But 1000lb wore it out and no replacement burr sets available. Picked up that KitchenAid for 55$ price mistake. It's quite decent but not quite normal 200$ grinder level.

I did a test where I dumped the coffee on a plate and The KitchenAid definitely was way more consistent grind "chunks" than the worn out breville.

Not good enough for serious espresso of course

 

[Cropduster172]

I had the OG. Breville smart grinder xl
But 1000lb wore it out and no replacement burr sets available. Picked up that KitchenAid for 55$ price mistake. It's quite decent but not quite normal 200$ grinder level.

I did a test where I dumped the coffee on a plate and The KitchenAid definitely was way more consistent grind "chunks" than the worn out breville.

Not good enough for serious espresso of course

I've tried a few grinders but I'm not looking for espresso grind quality...just drip. The Baratza Encore and the Oxo do just fine. The others I've tried were ok for grind consistency but were messy.
I've got a little superautomatic Gaggia Brera for the occasional espresso.

 

[johnmyster]

I enjoy my coffee, but I am so glad that I don't put myself through this every morning. I don't function at this level at 4:30-5am.

I've used a moccamaster for probably 14 years now.

About 12 years ago I found a nice Dolla Corte dual boiler that was all scaled up from restaurant use. I disassembled, descaled, reassembled. I then found out that as much as I liked expresso drinks (with good feedstock) I could not function at that level in the morning, and expresso was inappropriate in the evening.

Sold the machine.

My Baratza Preciso has been going for 14+ years with untold pounds of beans run through it. I purchased a few new (reasonably priced) parts for it last year direct from Baratza US. Would not hesitate to buy another Baratza prosumer grade grinder to feed a home coffee habit. I need coarse grind for french press use when we are in the RV and it does a pretty good job of not producing mud.

Red Bird coffee for the win, but household budgets have pushed me to stocking the freezer with starbucks light roast when sams has it on sale.

 

[alarmguy]

Excellent
I'm finishing up a bag of those on your suggestion. Quite good.
What grinder are you using?

Ok, now dont make fun. We only started grinding our own coffee 3ish years ago or so and clueless what to buy. But it does grind coffee *LOL* Cuisinart and we will most likely be using it for a long time because we actually have two. Another brand new one.
The reason being when we got the first my wife was unhappy about something. She called them up and they sent a new one. Turns out my wife was wrong and we are still using the old one.

However is there is something about grinders I dont know feel free to say.

Fired up the Moccamaster this morning. Wife loves it. Im still deciding for the following. The coffee was very good, fast and hot.
Im questioning myself was it strong enough or is it that it is just not burnt. I also noticed while brewing the far right side of the basket wasnt getting wet until the end. (but read on)

1. The 8 cups I was brewing in the Braun is 10 cups in the Moccamaster
2. The carafe is really nice, coffee hot
3. The presentation is amazing
4. Coffee tasted good but bothering me while I was watching it that the spray bar doesnt extend to the far right side. WITH THAT SAID, I will experiment over the coming days. We started off on a medium grind as suggested by Moccamaster but I kind of know making the grind finer will allow the basket to fill up with a bit more water. Of course there is also the control on the basket itself, I rather not restrict it in that way but it's possible.
5. It does take more effort. just a little bit putting the pieces in place to brew a pot but not a deal killer. I think for me I need to see, once I adjust the grind to more fine that all the grinds get properly saturated with hot brewing water.

Bottom line is the coffee tasted good, not bitter, less edgy. I just do not know if that was because of the spray bar not spraying all the grinds until the very end where the far right absorbed the water and became wet.

 

[Cropduster172]

Ok, now dont make fun. We only started grinding our own coffee 3ish years ago or so and clueless what to buy. But it does grind coffee *LOL* Cuisinart and we will most likely be using it for a long time because we actually have two. Another brand new one.
The reason being when we got the first my wife was unhappy about something. She called them up and they sent a new one. Turns out my wife was wrong and we are still using the old one.

However is there is something about grinders I dont know feel free to say.

Fired up the Moccamaster this morning. Wife loves it. Im still deciding for the following. The coffee was very good, fast and hot.
Im questioning myself was it strong enough or is it that it is just not burnt. I also noticed while brewing the far right side of the basket wasnt getting wet until the end. (but read on)

1. The 8 cups I was brewing in the Braun is 10 cups in the Moccamaster
2. The carafe is really nice, coffee hot
3. The presentation is amazing
4. Coffee tasted good but bothering me while I was watching it that the spray bar doesnt extend to the far right side. WITH THAT SAID, I will experiment over the coming days. We started off on a medium grind as suggested by Moccamaster but I kind of know making the grind finer will allow the basket to fill up with a bit more water. Of course there is also the control on the basket itself, I rather not restrict it in that way but it's possible.
5. It does take more effort. just a little bit putting the pieces in place to brew a pot but not a deal killer. I think for me I need to see, once I adjust the grind to more fine that all the grinds get properly saturated with hot brewing water.

Bottom line is the coffee tasted good, not bitter, less edgy. I just do not know if that was because of the spray bar not spraying all the grinds until the very end where the far right absorbed the water and became wet.

View attachment 266640

That grinder looks fine. Some folks here have tried blooming the coffee while brewing... basically interrupting/stopping the flow for about 30 seconds letting the grounds steep in the basket and stirring them a bit then continuing with brewing. I've done it a few times but I think it's sort of voodoo.

 

[Rand]

That grinder looks fine. Some folks here have tried blooming the coffee while brewing... basically interrupting/stopping the flow for about 30 seconds letting the grounds steep in the basket and stirring them a bit then continuing with brewing. I've done it a few times but I think it's sort of voodoo.

That works but for a full pot you can get away with stirring it a little after its fully soaked.

When you are making half a pot is where pausing during bloom and stirring makes more difference.

I usually dont bother except on my day off... I even (ugh) sometimes grind the night before and have it ready to switch on the following morning.

 

[alarmguy]

@Cropduster172

I wanted to give you an update and thank you for your post on this coffee maker. I see we (or I) commented in two different threads but chose this one since I commented on our initial impressions.
WELL the verdict is in.

Both my wife and I are about equal into all things mechanical and electronics

MOCCAMASTER IS A KEEPER. My wife loves it for its simplicity, looks, finesse and great tasting coffee.
I cant put my finger on it but the coffee, still strong is lacking bitterness. I was concerned about distribution of water in the coffee basket when brewing. Not an issue. I look at it more learning about the machine and tailoring it to your taste.

1. It's only when making 8 or more cups I wonder about water distribution over the grinds, but then again, most never have the ability to watch that on any other coffee maker while the coffee is brewing. With the Moccamaster you can.
Anyway, not a concern, to appease myself, when I fill the cone with grinds, I simply give a little shake so the grinds are higher on the side with the spray bar. The spray bar levels it all out as it brews.

2. Maybe we like really strong coffee? (yeah) I keep the flow setting on the brewing cone at the halfway point, even when brewing a lot of coffee. Typically we brew 8cups indicated on the coffee maker, with 5 healthy scoops of Amazon Dark Roost Beans with the grinder set on fine. (mocaamaster recommends medium)

3. I cant understand it, wife either. The coffee we are brewing with this machine is so nice and strong but so SMOOTH.
We arent masters of all things coffee, just a couple years back really started getting into it. Though in my family for decades we always bought better brand ground coffee than our family. (now a step further we grind our own)

The smoothness is defying logic to us. We are both analytical. I THINK and suspect it is the high brewing temperature of the water hitting the grinds. Since it doesnt have a hot plate I suspect (and sort of know) some coffee makers rely on that hotplate to insure the coffee hot enough. Yet with the Moccamaster, brewing that coffee into a well constructed, glass lined thermo carafe it is putting nothing less than almost scalding hot coffee in there, not relying on a hot plate. This is just my theory of how this maker can produce the coffee that it does. Maybe we are nuts but all I can say we are impressed and REALLY enjoying strong SMOOTH coffee.

As I type this, I realize how very true all this post is. SMOOTH is the word.
Thank you!

 

[Cropduster172]

@Cropduster172

I wanted to give you an update and thank you for your post on this coffee maker. I see we (or I) commented in two different threads but chose this one since I commented on our initial impressions.
WELL the verdict is in.

Both my wife and I are about equal into all things mechanical and electronics

MOCCAMASTER IS A KEEPER. My wife loves it for its simplicity, looks, finesse and great tasting coffee.
I cant put my finger on it but the coffee, still strong is lacking bitterness. I was concerned about distribution of water in the coffee basket when brewing. Not an issue. I look at it more learning about the machine and tailoring it to your taste.

1. It's only when making 8 or more cups I wonder about water distribution over the grinds, but then again, most never have the ability to watch that on any other coffee maker while the coffee is brewing. With the Moccamaster you can.
Anyway, not a concern, to appease myself, when I fill the cone with grinds, I simply give a little shake so the grinds are higher on the side with the spray bar. The spray bar levels it all out as it brews.

2. Maybe we like really strong coffee? (yeah) I keep the flow setting on the brewing cone at the halfway point, even when brewing a lot of coffee. Typically we brew 8cups indicated on the coffee maker, with 5 healthy scoops of Amazon Dark Roost Beans with the grinder set on fine. (mocaamaster recommends medium)

3. I cant understand it, wife either. The coffee we are brewing with this machine is so nice and strong but so SMOOTH.
We arent masters of all things coffee, just a couple years back really started getting into it. Though in my family for decades we always bought better brand ground coffee than our family.

The smoothness is defying logic to us. We are both analytical. I THINK and suspect it is the high brewing temperature of the water hitting the grinds. Since it doesnt have a hot plate I suspect (and sort of know) some coffee makers rely on that hotplate to insure the coffee hot enough. Yet with the Moccamaster, brewing that coffee into a well constructed, glass lined thermo carafe it is putting nothing less than almost scalding hot coffee in there, not relying on a hot plate. This is just my theory of how this maker can produce the coffee that it does. Maybe we are nuts but all I can say we are impressed and REALLY enjoying strong SMOOTH coffee.

As I type this, I realize how very true all this post is. SMOOTH is the word.
Thank you!

Glad to have helped. I've read about the concerns with uneven water dispersion from the Moccamaster shower head. There are even aftermarket developed ones that claimed to address the concerns. I believe Technivorm states that the shower head design uses "turbulence" or the force of the hot water to disturb the grounds for the proper level of extraction. Don't recall where I read that but I didn't make it up.
I have 2 identical model CBGT, beach house and primary. Don't believe they make it anymore. But for the most part, the models are identical in brew function.
The only problem I've had is with the flimsy plastic stainless carafe footplate. I resolved that problem by Supergluing it to the base where it fits on. Also, the Moccamaster brand filters suck. They're flimsy and overpriced. I bought a 400 pack of Because You Care at Sam's Club...$8. They're sturdy and work perfectly.
Enjoy your top shelf coffee maker. Yes definitely more expensive...worth every penny.
Life's to short for coffee!!

 

[alarmguy]

I have

Glad to have helped. I've read about the concerns with uneven water dispersion from the Moccamaster shower head. There are even aftermarket developed ones that claimed to address the concerns. I believe Technivorm states that the shower head design uses "turbulence" or the force of the hot water to disturb the grounds for the proper level of extraction. Don't recall where I read that but I didn't make it up.
I have 2 identical model CBGT, beach house and primary. Don't believe they make it anymore. But for the most part, the models are identical in brew function.
The only problem I've had is with the flimsy plastic stainless carafe footplate. I resolved that problem by Supergluing it to the base where it fits on. Also, the Moccamaster brand filters suck. They're flimsy and overpriced. I bought a 400 pack of Because You Care at Sam's Club...$8. They're sturdy and work perfectly.
Enjoy your top shelf coffee maker. Yes definitely more expensive...worth every penny.
Life's to short for coffee!!

View attachment 267515

The water distribution is interesting at the same time we dont see in a typical maker how well the spray head works because we have to lift the lid. I have noticed in our Braun when I lifted the lid once or twice the majority of the water was coming out the front holes and not the back. The back was still dry. So I am good and 100% on the way I have it now but that spray head is interesting. I also examined today, I wonder how many people know that dry grinds float? Today I noticed the puffiness and poked it with a spoon. It was a thin layer floating and everything soaked below.
I like the looks of that spray head though. At the same time maybe there is something to the disturbing the grinds.

Yes. my wife fixed that plate right away! She used sticky felt strips along the seem on the bottom effectively gluing it *LOL* She also put felt pads on the bottom of that and the pot, makes it easy to slide out on the granite from the cabinet and back in place when done for the day.

We use Melitta #4 and will continue, we buy them in 3 or 4 packs, 100 in each box = 300 or 400 filters. (wife says Amazon but think we also saw in warehouse clubs) We haven't used the one white one from Moccamaster.


We are using Melitta #4