OMG the Torin Big Red 2-ton jack sucks!

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Originally Posted By: jcwit
I do use jack stands and do not rely entirely on the jack.


You probably know this already, but for anyone else reading, you should never rely on only a jack when working under a vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I do use jack stands and do not rely entirely on the jack.


You probably know this already, but for anyone else reading, you should never rely on only a jack when working under a vehicle.


Yup! Always use all safety precautions, something unknown can always happen.

Something else, when you think to yourself, "If I'm REAL careful I can --------" DON'T!
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Comments like this really overblow the safety concerns

Who said anything about complete failure? Leak down, failure to pump fully, failure to lower slowly are all safety concerns.

You are just commenting on your own interpretation of what i said.


Hmmm....

Saying something is a "serious and dangerous PITA" is pretty easy to interpret as a complete failure, IMO. Also, you mentioned jack stands, which don't have issues like "leak down, failure to pump fully, failure to lower slowly."

You may want to be more clear about your intended interpretation.
cheers3.gif


Originally Posted By: Trav

Cheap jacks and stands are a serious and dangerous PITA,


Cheap stands are a PITA they have a habit of damaging rocker panels and panel trim with their sometimes over deep V uppers. Poor welds, thin steel, weak pins are all part of the bargain.
Is that detailed enough for you? If you want to trust your behind to them thats your business but why advocate for cheap product that people risk their lives on?
Most people got the idea from my first post.
cheers3.gif
 
If you want a cheap jack that won't totally stink, the low-profile steel jacks from HF that go from 2.5-20" are pretty decent. I have one, and it's been good to me in the few years I've had it.
 
Yes, its still clear the only way to tell the quality of any item is its price. Nothing else matters, not a whit.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Yes, its still clear the only way to tell the quality of any item is its price. Nothing else matters, not a whit.


More often it's,

Yes, its still clear the only way to tell the value of any item is its price. Nothing else matters, not a whit.

Most of the Chinese jacks ~$70-$100 appear to require replacement 3-4 times and never work right to begin with compared to a quaility jack. Are they really a value? I wonder. For every claim that one of these china jacks lasted long term and worked well, there seems to be at least 3 or 4 maybe several dozen that didn't. You're the only person I've heard that had a properly working 30 year old china jack.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Yes, its still clear the only way to tell the quality of any item is its price. Nothing else matters, not a whit.


More often it's,

Yes, its still clear the only way to tell the value of any item is its price. Nothing else matters, not a whit.

Most of the Chinese jacks ~$70-$100 appear to require replacement 3-4 times and never work right to begin with compared to a quaility jack. Are they really a value? I wonder. For every claim that one of these china jacks lasted long term and worked well, there seems to be at least 3 or 4 maybe several dozen that didn't. You're the only person I've heard that had a properly working 30 year old china jack.


I would argue my statement and your statement agreeing with me to the death!

Value is established by the usefulness and lasting of the product. Price of the article is of little importance.

I fact I have a jack that cost $19.95 "IIRC" 30 years ago proves my point, the fact that you have never heard of it before is of no importance unless you have actually done a scientific study to back up your claim.

Take it to another item, I purchased a new Kimber custom II 45 ACP in S/S, that normally retails for $1,200, I paid $350 for it and mailed in the warranty forms. So I got something for a super value, regardless of the fact I paid $850 less than MSRP, In fact the price I paid was less than wholesale cost.

I can site many more examples but no need to take up time & space at this time.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav

Cheap stands are a PITA they have a habit of damaging rocker panels and panel trim with their sometimes over deep V uppers. Poor welds, thin steel, weak pins are all part of the bargain.
Is that detailed enough for you? If you want to trust your behind to them thats your business but why advocate for cheap product that people risk their lives on?
Most people got the idea from my first post.
cheers3.gif



In some applications the deeper V is a benefit.

And again, claims about thin steel and weak pins don't seem to ring true, since there aren't many examples of them failing.

And you think spending more money gets you a better product with better welds? Not always. Check out these pricey Hein Werner stands:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148786

I'm not "advocating" for cheap stands. I'm simply pointing out that there's very little (if any) evidence to show the common, affordable jack stands are the safety hazard some people explicitly, or implicitly, try to claim they are. If they truly were a safety hazard, people would be dying or being injured left and right constantly by them, and that's simply not the case.

Buy whatever you want. If you want a high-priced stand, then buy it. But I get tired of the internet echo chamber claims that bash or promote things without any real evidence.

Side note - anyone who wants to buy a high-end jack stand, check out US Jack. They're nice, but pricey.
http://www.usjack.com/
 
Stephen,

I vaguely remember a thread started at GJ showing some really poor welded US Jack stands, but it seems the thread disappeared entirely.

Interesting to note that the US Jack stands are rated per individual stand while most others are rated for a pair. So the 3 ton US Jack stand is really good for 3 tons while the 3 ton Hein Werner is really only good for 1.5 ton.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Stephen,

I vaguely remember a thread started at GJ showing some really poor welded US Jack stands, but it seems the thread disappeared entirely.

Interesting to note that the US Jack stands are rated per individual stand while most others are rated for a pair.


You're right that US Jack stands are rated each, while pretty much every other brand is for the pair. So, for anyone reading this, the 3-ton US Jack stands are equivalent to 6-ton stands from most other brands.

I remember the thread you're referring to. It was deleted for arguing, I think. I actually remember commenting in the thread that the stands looked significantly better than the Hein Werner stands I linked to above. But the person who posted that thread was really mad for the price he paid.


EDIT -

Here's one of the threads. He started another thread but it was deleted.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166387

Frankly, there's really no evidence that they are in any way unsafe or don't meet the rating. But people seem to like to complain about the cosmetic appearance of welds.
 
I bought a made in china 3 ton floor jack over 20 years ago. It never really worked right or that good, but I still have it and it will still jack up a car but just barely and slowly drop. I remember it costing closer to $50 or $60 or so way back then. I have no faith in a $100 china jacks working well or holding up long term even for occasional persona use. The price is tempting but they are not a good value long term.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
In some applications the deeper V is a benefit.

How about some real examples? They don't work well on rocker panel seams, rear ends or subframes so i'm curious.

How many cheaps stand and jacks fail? How about some real numbers other than there are no widespread reports. I never claimed there was but you are claiming there are not so put up the numbers.

Now you coming up with another forum as a source of information? If anyone else did that you would be the first one to claim thats pretty lame.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav


Now you coming up with another forum as a source of information? If anyone else did that you would be the first one to claim thats pretty lame.


No, I wouldn't call it "lame."

That forum is based entirely around tools and garages. There are many more threads on tools over there.

I'm done with this dumb argument. The same tired arguments are always made about affordable jack stands, even though there's little evidence of them failing.

Moral of the story, buy whatever you want. But anyone reading this should think twice before believing the negative claims about the affordable jack stands. There just isn't enough evidence to show the claims are true. There are many, many of them sold at a variety of stores and almost no examples of real failures.

Be smart and safe in the garage, everyone. Buy what you want and enjoy it.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Just for information. Since we are posting about info from other websites.
Look for the pics a few pages in.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=0


I'll only respond by saying that's one of the few examples always brought up in these threads. But, I have great sympathy for the person injured. It's always a shame to see someone hurt in the garage and I hope he made a full recovery.

That thread and a handful of others are always posted in these arguments. If you'd like to read more, head on over to Garage Journal.

As I said, real failures seem to be very, very rare. How many affordable jack stands are sold by HF, Northern Tool, the auto parts stores and others? We'll never know the exact number, but it's a lot.


If anyone wants jack stands that ratchet and use a pin, you can check into the Torin double locking stands. They're not the fanciest stands available, but they have a double locking mechanism.
http://www.amazon.com/Torin-T43002A-Double-Locking-Jack/dp/B00026Z3E0
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Just for information. Since we are posting about info from other websites.
Look for the pics a few pages in.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=70117&st=0


Came across this thread while doing some research. Looks like that 914 owner hit the release on the jack stand; no stop pin in use. Scary.

I'm curious: what about just making wood blocks, out of a stack of 2x4's? Ala. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=70117&view=findpost&p=1681378 make the base wide and it should be stable. Only downside is storage, and perhaps size.
 
if you get the HF jack stay away from the cheap alum ones.
the front roller is annoying. rather have 2 separate less tippy wheels.
get a reg/low profile all steel one they are great.

The jackstand linked that broke had previous damage due to cracking that caused it to fail (notice the rust across the break)

also jackstand rating is by pair usually.

so 3 ton jackstands would be 3000 lb each

I have a different model HF floor jack weighs 89lb. works great. The twist handle to release pressure is abit tricky. I dont let anyone use it but myself, but the newer ones work better.
 
Last edited:
I looked at some of the 3 ton models suggested, but at 100lb plus those are going to be fun lugging around. I'm going to go with a bottle jack and decent jack stands instead.
 
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