My theory is that oil life monitors are set for the cheapest oil that just barely meets the manufacturers requirements. and running an extended oil like Mobil 1 EP, one would be fine to run it to at least 1.5x the OLM indication. Does this make sense?
OLM set for worst oil?
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dnewton3
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OLMs are a step above the inane old aribitrary X,000 miles, but they ares still overly conservative.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
Patman
Staff member
It's going to be different depending on the car, for those that come factory filled with synthetic already (like my Corvette), you wouldn't want to go 1.5X in those applications. Nor would you want to go 1.5X on something with direct injection.
But in the case of something like my Honda, with port injection, I'm sure the OLM is calibrated with conventional oil in mind and my UOAs in the past have shown it has been perfectly safe to go 1.5X what the OLM says.
The safest way to do it though, would be to do a UOA at an oil change following the OLM to the exact point it says to change, and then slowly increase the OCI in the future and see what those UOAs say about the safety of those longer intervals. I would never recommend anyone go beyond the manufacturer's recommendations without a UOA.
But in the case of something like my Honda, with port injection, I'm sure the OLM is calibrated with conventional oil in mind and my UOAs in the past have shown it has been perfectly safe to go 1.5X what the OLM says.
The safest way to do it though, would be to do a UOA at an oil change following the OLM to the exact point it says to change, and then slowly increase the OCI in the future and see what those UOAs say about the safety of those longer intervals. I would never recommend anyone go beyond the manufacturer's recommendations without a UOA.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by dnewton3
OLMs are a step above the inane old aribitrary X,000 miles, but they ares still overly conservative.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
With all due respect, I think your driving habits (and engine) are very easy on the oil, which is how you've been able to get great UOAs with 15,000 miles on conventional oil, while others sometimes struggle to even get good UOAs with synthetic oil at 10,000 miles.
OLMs are a step above the inane old aribitrary X,000 miles, but they ares still overly conservative.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
With all due respect, I think your driving habits (and engine) are very easy on the oil, which is how you've been able to get great UOAs with 15,000 miles on conventional oil, while others sometimes struggle to even get good UOAs with synthetic oil at 10,000 miles.
Patman
Staff member
I also remember the time I followed the OLM in my wife's BMW, running M1 0w40, and it ended up being around 13,000 miles, and the oil had thickened up considerably and didn't look to be in great shape.
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by dnewton3
OLMs are a step above the inane old aribitrary X,000 miles, but they ares still overly conservative.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
With all due respect, I think your driving habits (and engine) are very easy on the oil, which is how you've been able to get great UOAs with 15,000 miles on conventional oil, while others sometimes struggle to even get good UOAs with synthetic oil at 10,000 miles.
Doesn't the OLM take into consideration your driving habits (and engine)?
Originally Posted by dnewton3
OLMs are a step above the inane old aribitrary X,000 miles, but they ares still overly conservative.
I've successfully run dino oils anywhere from 2x to 5x further than the OEM recommendations and still had great UOAs, so yeah, the M1 should be able to handle 1.5x, and then some.
With all due respect, I think your driving habits (and engine) are very easy on the oil, which is how you've been able to get great UOAs with 15,000 miles on conventional oil, while others sometimes struggle to even get good UOAs with synthetic oil at 10,000 miles.
Doesn't the OLM take into consideration your driving habits (and engine)?
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by Leo99
Doesn't the OLM take into consideration your driving habits (and engine)?
It will, to a certain extent, but I don't think very many OLMs would allow as high as a 15,000 mile interval if they were originally factory filled with conventional oil.
Doesn't the OLM take into consideration your driving habits (and engine)?
It will, to a certain extent, but I don't think very many OLMs would allow as high as a 15,000 mile interval if they were originally factory filled with conventional oil.
Yes, that makes sense
In fact, in some of the older GM and Honda OLM systems that aren't turbo or DI, the M1 EP can probably handle double the OLM-recommended OCI
In fact, in some of the older GM and Honda OLM systems that aren't turbo or DI, the M1 EP can probably handle double the OLM-recommended OCI
can barely get 7K out of a 2.4l NA 14 CRV. once you get to 0 it drops like a rock. 350 mi to go from 5% to 0 another 200 and change it was -265, go figure. will see how good/bad/ indifferent it is when I get the report back. last one had 2.5 TBN remaining w/6.3K on it.
think I ran AMS OE or XL will have to check.
think I ran AMS OE or XL will have to check.
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I have a 2007 chevy w/t classic with the 4.3 V6 . I don't go by the oil monitor. I just change it as soon as it hits 10K miles.
If I use the oil monitor it will tell me to change at around 11K miles. I must be easy on the oil if this monitor takes into account my driving habits.
If I use the oil monitor it will tell me to change at around 11K miles. I must be easy on the oil if this monitor takes into account my driving habits.
Originally Posted by passgas55
I have a 2007 chevy w/t classic with the 4.3 V6 . I don't go by the oil monitor. I just change it as soon as it hits 10K miles.
If I use the oil monitor it will tell me to change at around 11K miles. I must be easy on the oil if this monitor takes into account my driving habits.
I've got a 2011 Chevy w/t with the 4.3 V6 and I'm down to 45% oil life at only 2,200 miles. Granted I do some short trips, but I thought I could get at least 4,000 before 0%. It was a dealer full synthetic oil change. 10,200 miles on vehicle.
I have a 2007 chevy w/t classic with the 4.3 V6 . I don't go by the oil monitor. I just change it as soon as it hits 10K miles.
If I use the oil monitor it will tell me to change at around 11K miles. I must be easy on the oil if this monitor takes into account my driving habits.
I've got a 2011 Chevy w/t with the 4.3 V6 and I'm down to 45% oil life at only 2,200 miles. Granted I do some short trips, but I thought I could get at least 4,000 before 0%. It was a dealer full synthetic oil change. 10,200 miles on vehicle.
What if your OLM interfaces BITOG? It may get opinionated about certain brands of oil. It may decide you're not going even a little past 5000 miles if you use Castrol instead of M1.
As I said previously the iOLM in our 2.3 EB Explorer seems to be set for 10,000 miles NO MATTER the seasons or driving conditions. According to Ford as long as it meets their oil spec, which many conventional oils do, it's "OK" to use the iOLM for up to the10,000 miles then. To be honest I'm not crazy about using a conventional oil in a DI Turbo engine period. Even less so to use it for the iOLM for 10,000 miles. If I was leasing the vehicle or going to trade it in after 3 to 4 years then I wouldn't care. But we keep our vehicles for 15 years plus so it pays to use some common sense maintenance. My UOA's of 6,300 to 7,000 miles show ok with Mobil 1 5W-30. I used Motorcraft 5W-30 for
Whimsey
Whimsey
I did a uoa with redline 0w20 and archoil and at almost 10k the tbn was like 4.7 still. I only change mine around 10k as it's the same time I do a tire rotation and q 3rd for cvt fluid change and every 20 oil changes the brake fluid gets changed out.
My Sable is the first car i've had with an OLM. it's not an intelligent olm.
Even though the onboard software is set for 6 mos/5k mi(I've checked it with Forscan), with my commute it basically ticks off 1% point per day (thereby basically wanting me to change the oil every 100 days)
I stick to the 6 mos/ 5k mi.
at one point, during my first oci with the car, when the olm was nearing 10% or so, i sent a sample to blackstone, who confirmed that running through 2 cycles should be just fine.
Even though the onboard software is set for 6 mos/5k mi(I've checked it with Forscan), with my commute it basically ticks off 1% point per day (thereby basically wanting me to change the oil every 100 days)
I stick to the 6 mos/ 5k mi.
at one point, during my first oci with the car, when the olm was nearing 10% or so, i sent a sample to blackstone, who confirmed that running through 2 cycles should be just fine.
I believe that the premise of the OP is correct...Use the oil of the spec set by the OEM, and good to go.
My Colorado goes out to 10,000 miles (16,000km) on a scheduled 15,000km service interval...however, as a demo, it's first 4,000km consumed 65% of the OLM, my next 6,000km the other 35%...I can drive 500km and not lose a percent on the highway.
My Colorado goes out to 10,000 miles (16,000km) on a scheduled 15,000km service interval...however, as a demo, it's first 4,000km consumed 65% of the OLM, my next 6,000km the other 35%...I can drive 500km and not lose a percent on the highway.
The OLM is configured to prevent people from wasting resources, ie motor oil while getting the engine past the extended warranty period. Nothing more.
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
GM's OLM did not even meet the requirements to get the engine past the warranty period! Hence the famous recalibration to shorter intervals.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/05...-that-their-cars-may-need-oil-changes-m/
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-f-150-ecoboost-timing-chain-replacement
https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/common-issues-3-5l-ecoboost/
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
GM's OLM did not even meet the requirements to get the engine past the warranty period! Hence the famous recalibration to shorter intervals.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/05...-that-their-cars-may-need-oil-changes-m/
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-f-150-ecoboost-timing-chain-replacement
https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/engine/common-issues-3-5l-ecoboost/
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Originally Posted by Cujet
The OLM is configured to prevent people from wasting resources, ie motor oil while getting the engine past the extended warranty period. Nothing more.
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
Yeah OEM's want to be known as the manufacturer of the modern hooptie. Get past the warranty and die. No manufacturer wants to be known as the maker of junk. Did your ecoboost fail? If it did it was one of the rare few and you could use a custom boutique and change it every 2K and you would not prevent a thing. All this does is nurse a dying engine along until it dies, replaced, or you trade your truck in because you get tired of it.
The frequent changes at best band aid a situation and if the issue is widespread it allows a manufacturer to deny it has a faulty process in either manufacturing or engineering or both. As for your 2.7 ecoboost it appears with a less than a 1% failure with hundreds of thousands of examples in use everyday right now means you have a dud or you are looking for a problem. If it's the later you will find it. Because we can always find problems.
The OLM is configured to prevent people from wasting resources, ie motor oil while getting the engine past the extended warranty period. Nothing more.
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
Yeah OEM's want to be known as the manufacturer of the modern hooptie. Get past the warranty and die. No manufacturer wants to be known as the maker of junk. Did your ecoboost fail? If it did it was one of the rare few and you could use a custom boutique and change it every 2K and you would not prevent a thing. All this does is nurse a dying engine along until it dies, replaced, or you trade your truck in because you get tired of it.
The frequent changes at best band aid a situation and if the issue is widespread it allows a manufacturer to deny it has a faulty process in either manufacturing or engineering or both. As for your 2.7 ecoboost it appears with a less than a 1% failure with hundreds of thousands of examples in use everyday right now means you have a dud or you are looking for a problem. If it's the later you will find it. Because we can always find problems.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Cujet
The OLM is configured to prevent people from wasting resources, ie motor oil while getting the engine past the extended warranty period. Nothing more.
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
Yeah OEM's want to be known as the manufacturer of the modern hooptie. Get past the warranty and die. No manufacturer wants to be known as the maker of junk. Did your ecoboost fail? If it did it was one of the rare few and you could use a custom boutique and change it every 2K and you would not prevent a thing. All this does is nurse a dying engine along until it dies, replaced, or you trade your truck in because you get tired of it.
The frequent changes at best band aid a situation and if the issue is widespread it allows a manufacturer to deny it has a faulty process in either manufacturing or engineering or both. As for your 2.7 ecoboost it appears with a less than a 1% failure with hundreds of thousands of examples in use everyday right now means you have a dud or you are looking for a problem. If it's the later you will find it. Because we can always find problems.
Agreed, people saying that all the manufacturers care about their product last until the warranty is just silly talk. They would go out of business very quickly if their products died before 100k miles.
Originally Posted by Cujet
The OLM is configured to prevent people from wasting resources, ie motor oil while getting the engine past the extended warranty period. Nothing more.
Please understand, manufacturers have nothing to gain by producing extremely long life engines or vehicles. Engines are built to a well known specification. One only need review the design to determine this is true beyond doubt. Consider the small sump sizes, the lack of oil temperature management, the lack of quality cylinder liners, plastic internal parts, the requirements for insufficient viscosity, etc. (in some cases, 0W-water may not be "just fine" for maximizing engine life) (Kia/Hyundai, Ford, GM, BMW etc)
The Ford Ecoboost 2.7L engine is example number 1. It operates continuously with what would be considered full throttle on a normally aspirated engine, not to mention the doubling of stress due to boost. Yet, is known to last a very long time towing heavy loads, with as much as 20PSI boost! Ford even tells us what they did to improve durability.
Again, choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently and enjoy long engine life.
Unless your OLM has a particle counter (it does not) you have no way of knowing the number, size and type of wear creating particulates in the oil. Not to mention just how much of the oil is fuel by products. The oil change is the way to ensure clean, viable oil.
Yeah OEM's want to be known as the manufacturer of the modern hooptie. Get past the warranty and die. No manufacturer wants to be known as the maker of junk. Did your ecoboost fail? If it did it was one of the rare few and you could use a custom boutique and change it every 2K and you would not prevent a thing. All this does is nurse a dying engine along until it dies, replaced, or you trade your truck in because you get tired of it.
The frequent changes at best band aid a situation and if the issue is widespread it allows a manufacturer to deny it has a faulty process in either manufacturing or engineering or both. As for your 2.7 ecoboost it appears with a less than a 1% failure with hundreds of thousands of examples in use everyday right now means you have a dud or you are looking for a problem. If it's the later you will find it. Because we can always find problems.
Agreed, people saying that all the manufacturers care about their product last until the warranty is just silly talk. They would go out of business very quickly if their products died before 100k miles.
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