Old toro snowblower runs poorly

[civhatch901]

TORO 5/24 snowblower, model 38040 (an 80's machine)

Someone gifted me this old machine several years ago which I was never able to get running well. If my memory serves me well, it has a replacement "cheapo" carburetor.

Has clean gas and usually starts within first or second pull. Does not smoke and sometimes it does run well, but other times it stalls as you can see in the video.

Things I have tried:
-Bypassed all the safety switches and no change.
-Bypassed the gas tank (used auxiliary gas tank) and no change.

I don't think its an issue of the carburetor not receiving enough fuel. Could this be carb tunning issue? Just a bad carb? I know for sure the carb itself is not gummed up since it has had this issue since day 1. Could it be a governor issue?


Link to poor running snowblower:


I am a sucker for these old machines and don't want to give up on it.

 

[wavinwayne]

Donyboy73 on YouTube is the snowblower guy. Check out his channel.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Have you tried running any sort of fuel cleaner? I've had some luck resolving problems like that using Seafoam or B-12.

What does the plug look like?

 

[Brian123]

TORO 5/24 snowblower, model 38040 (an 80's machine)

Someone gifted me this old machine several years ago which I was never able to get running well. If my memory serves me well, it has a replacement "cheapo" carburetor.

Has clean gas and usually starts within first or second pull. Does not smoke and sometimes it does run well, but other times it stalls as you can see in the video.

Things I have tried:
-Bypassed all the safety switches and no change.
-Bypassed the gas tank (used auxiliary gas tank) and no change.

I don't think its an issue of the carburetor not receiving enough fuel. Could this be carb tunning issue? Just a bad carb? I know for sure the carb itself is not gummed up since it has had this issue since day 1. Could it be a governor issue?


Link to poor running snowblower:


I am a sucker for these old machines and don't want to give up on it.

Try a product called Mechanic in A Bottle!

 

[Gyro Gearloose]

That looks to me to be really messed up carb. When you hold the throttle against the idle screw, which is cranked way up BTW, it runs badly. When the governor opens up the throttle, it dies, which to me indicates too lean. It could the main jet is badly misadjusted on an old carb, or just plugged on newer nonadjustable ones.

If you can find a replacement carb on Amazon for 20 bucks that is the easy way out. Since the mahvelous invention of ethanol gas, reviving messed up carbs is a long shot in my experience.

 

[The_Jeff]

Is that a Tecumseh? I hold those in low regard. Even when running right their torque curve is such that when the snow gets thicker they just up and die. I'd throw a HF motor on it unless you really like challenges.

 

[grasscutter]

Briggs & Stratton or Tecumseh? Let's start there.

 

[Fattylocks]

I don't see any black smoke. Sounds like it isn't getting gas. I look at the carb again.

 

[mk378]

Turn the throttle plate stop screw in so it can't close all the way. This screw is on the carb and stops the part you were pushing on. The idle circuit (if it has one) is probably clogged. Adjusting the stop should prevent it from stalling but it will then likely run in surges with no load.

 

[The_Eric]

That looks to me to be really messed up carb. When you hold the throttle against the idle screw, which is cranked way up BTW, it runs badly. When the governor opens up the throttle, it dies, which to me indicates too lean. It could the main jet is badly misadjusted on an old carb, or just plugged on newer nonadjustable ones.

If you can find a replacement carb on Amazon for 20 bucks that is the easy way out. Since the mahvelous invention of ethanol gas, reviving messed up carbs is a long shot in my experience.

I agree that the carb is messed up in some way, but your comment about the governor is backwards. The governor doesn't open the throttle, it closes it and the throttle cable/spring opens it. So the faster the engine turns, the more the gov is trying to close it and the more the throttle cable and spring combo are trying to open it. That way when the engine slows down under load, the gov exerts less closing force and the cable/spring combo over power it and open the throttle more to overcome it and speed the engine back up until they reach an equilibrium.


The high speed circuit is obviously messed up and probably very plugged/lean

 

[JTK]

Good old machine here. I put a carb on one of these for a family member last year. This is definitely a carburetor issue. Throw a replacement carb on it. You're not going to find genuine Tecumseh replacement parts anymore unless they're used or NOS.

 

[GaryMX5]

TORO 5/24 snowblower, model 38040 (an 80's machine)

Someone gifted me this old machine several years ago which I was never able to get running well. If my memory serves me well, it has a replacement "cheapo" carburetor.

Has clean gas and usually starts within first or second pull. Does not smoke and sometimes it does run well, but other times it stalls as you can see in the video.

Things I have tried:
-Bypassed all the safety switches and no change.
-Bypassed the gas tank (used auxiliary gas tank) and no change.

I don't think its an issue of the carburetor not receiving enough fuel. Could this be carb tunning issue? Just a bad carb? I know for sure the carb itself is not gummed up since it has had this issue since day 1. Could it be a governor issue?


Link to poor running snowblower:


I am a sucker for these old machines and don't want to give up on it.

I suggest you ask your question at www.snowblowerforum.com. There's people there that have worked on just about every blower made. Some are hobbyists that collect and restore everything and anything that was designed to spit snow. There's factory trained shop owners that participate as well. Sometimes their fixes can be so simple you go away kicking yourself.

 

[Mainia]

Mechanic in A Bottle!

Only buy OEM carbs, take the hit and move on.


Fill the tank of snowblower with 91 non ethanol and dump the whole bottle in and let the snowblower burn through the whole tank. If it runs semi ok before the gas/cleaner, then run 1/2 the tank with this cleaner and save the rest for snow.

https://www.menards.com/main/tools/...ive-4-oz/2-004-12/p-1444424538318-c-10098.htm

.

 

[nbpt100]

Is that a Tecumseh? I hold those in low regard. Even when running right their torque curve is such that when the snow gets thicker they just up and die. I'd throw a HF motor on it unless you really like challenges.

I respectfully disagree. The Tecumseh Snow King was the premier flat head snow blower engine in it's day. For decades. They were very robust. The problem is often the 5hp engine is under powered for deeper or heavier snow. That is not an engine problem. You need 8hp on a 24" (6HP on a 22") wide bucket minimum if you live in the North. You also have to know how to tune them. The newer OHV engines have their benefits over flatheads. But they are not as robust on a whole. Regardless of who makes them.

Sounds like a fuel issue. Rebuild the original carb if you have it. Chinese aftermarket carbs are notorious for being mislabeled or jetted incorrectly. It may look correct and bolt up fine, but that does not mean it is the correct carb for your application.
If you have adjustable jets, look at some videos on how to tune them.

Make sure you have the linkages in the correct holes. A common user error on Tecumsehs. They have multiple hole options and only one works for your machine. Look at videos to determine your correct holes.

Also make sure the governor is set up correctly. Again look for a video on how to do this.

 

[repairman54]

I respectfully disagree. The Tecumseh Snow King was the premier flat head snow blower engine in it's day. For decades. They were very robust. The problem is often the 5hp engine is under powered for deeper or heavier snow. That is not an engine problem. You need 8hp on a 24" (6HP on a 22") wide bucket minimum if you live in the North. You also have to know how to tune them. The newer OHV engines have their benefits over flatheads. But they are not as robust on a whole. Regardless of who makes them.

Sounds like a fuel issue. Rebuild the original carb if you have it. Chinese aftermarket carbs are notorious for being mislabeled or jetted incorrectly. It may look correct and bolt up fine, but that does not mean it is the correct carb for your application.
If you have adjustable jets, look at some videos on how to tune them.

Make sure you have the linkages in the correct holes. A common user error on Tecumsehs. They have multiple hole options and only one works for your machine. Look at videos to determine your correct holes.

Also make sure the governor is set up correctly. Again look for a video on how to do this.

2x I've had Tecumseh's in 5hp and have 2 8hp ones now, both '90's machines, MTD and an Ariens. 5hp in a blower in heavy stuff is a ''brick'' maker. I had to replace the carb 10 years ago in the MTD and I paid the price for a OEM one back then as it was a free, neglected machine. Couple pumps on the primer and its a one pull starter still to this day with a easy start plug in it.

 

[civhatch901]

Quick update for anybody having a similar issue and coming across this thread in the future:

- Took the carb apart and there was some sediment in the bowl, cleaned it out and reinstalled.
- Found the service manual for the machine and followed the carb tuning instructions and now the machine runs great.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

Quick update for anybody having a similar issue and coming across this thread in the future:

- Took the carb apart and there was some sediment in the bowl, cleaned it out and reinstalled.
- Found the service manual for the machine and followed the carb tuning instructions and now the machine runs great.

Great news! I'm rebuilding and tuning my neglected 25-ish year old snowblower with an HMSK90 Tecumseh snow king. Similar problems. Runs okay but not great even after adjusting the carb. I took the fuel bowl off and sprayed things out a bit with carb cleaner and readjusted it and it runs much better.

Next up I'll be doing a shock dose of B12 in the gas. 4-6oz per one gallon. Berryman says this is about as concentrated as you want to do it. Normal dose is 1oz per gallon. I'll let it run mid-throttle for a couple hours and burn through the tank of gas. Then change the oil and spark plug.

I suspect I need to adjust the governor arm and fiddle with the governor springs as the RPM's drop more than I'd like under load.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Crazy question on backyard chemist. Totally against the let each thing work.

Can you do a 4-6oz per gallon B12 and Mechanic in a bottle? Will that help clear possible gummed up float/pin/seal.

Coworker has a Briggs and Stratton 1022e single stage and from her description leaks fuel all the time. Knowing it was rarely used I presume old gas gummed up stuff. I don't have much time to help her with different schedules. I do have Berrymans and Mechanic in a bottle. I'm going to try and get better part/motor number to just get a new carb. That stuff I did find was it is discontinued and one carb was over $300. The cheap import ones of course are like $40 or less. I just don't want to go through swapping and not have it adjusted correctly as others described.

It's supposed to snow again this weekend and be like 20F as a high (5F low) until then with no garage to work in.

Just do some Berrymans and let it leak through? Just MIB and let it leak? Video's showed it leaks external not into oil etc.

 

[AdmiralYoda]

@Sequoiasoon Where exactly is it leaking? The fuel bowl is a common spot, usually because someone took it off to try and clean things and when they put it back on they pinched the o-ring (or forgot it). Might be worth it to take it back off and spray things out and re-install.

There are a number of youtube videos (questionable) where backyard mechanics (questionable) run varying concentrations of B12, seafoam, etc through a small engine to see what will happen. There are a couple where some guy ran his pushmower on higher and higher concentrations of B12 up to 90%-B12/10%-gas. It ran fine, didn't smoke and his before/after of the spark plug and piston looked promising.

On Berryman's website, somewhere in the FAQ's is a question about the maximum concentration. Berryman's response was 4-6 oz per gallon is about as high as you want to go. Beyond that and you aren't likely to see additional benefit.

At this dosage I'd want to run it all through the carb and be done with it. If it sits in the carb for an extended period of time it will probably dissolve junk and clean it up.....but will the high concentration of B12 be bad for some carburetor parts? I don't know.

So I'm going to run a single tank of 1 gallon of gas with 6 oz of B12 all at once. After that it will get regular gas from my 5 gallon can that has a dose of Stabil, 5oz of B12 (1oz/gal), and a bit of 2-stroke oil for an upper cylinder lubricant. VP Racings JASO FD 2-stroke mixed to 100:1.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

@Sequoiasoon Where exactly is it leaking? The fuel bowl is a common spot, usually because someone took it off to try and clean things and when they put it back on they pinched the o-ring (or forgot it). Might be worth it to take it back off and spray things out and re-install.

There are a number of youtube videos (questionable) where backyard mechanics (questionable) run varying concentrations of B12, seafoam, etc through a small engine to see what will happen. There are a couple where some guy ran his pushmower on higher and higher concentrations of B12 up to 90%-B12/10%-gas. It ran fine, didn't smoke and his before/after of the spark plug and piston looked promising.

On Berryman's website, somewhere in the FAQ's is a question about the maximum concentration. Berryman's response was 4-6 oz per gallon is about as high as you want to go. Beyond that and you aren't likely to see additional benefit.

At this dosage I'd want to run it all through the carb and be done with it. If it sits in the carb for an extended period of time it will probably dissolve junk and clean it up.....but will the high concentration of B12 be bad for some carburetor parts? I don't know.

So I'm going to run a single tank of 1 gallon of gas with 6 oz of B12 all at once. After that it will get regular gas from my 5 gallon can that has a dose of Stabil, 5oz of B12 (1oz/gal), and a bit of 2-stroke oil for an upper cylinder lubricant. VP Racings JASO FD 2-stroke mixed to 100:1.

Unknown where from. From the video's it's behind a bunch of plastic cladding. This is the model with a long video on cleaning carb etc. Briggs & Stratton 1022E leaking fuel

Her description is it smells like gas and gets all over them (boots/pants etc) when they use it. It does run as they used it this weekend.

I might give her some B12 and have put a couple ounces in the tank before Friday. I don't know if any fuel in tank currently.

I'm going to say no one ever had it apart. Her father-in-law gave it to them and it sat. She's handy and likes projects but not like digging into OPE or cars. Around house projects no issues. I don't know about him but I know they do bring cars in for service, not DIY.