Old plumbing drains right into the ground

[avacado11]

I’ve got a old bar/pub that was originally constructed back in the 1890s then saw major renovation/addition in the late 1940s. The renovation added 2 additional apartments to it, making it 3 units total above the bar/pub. The two newer apartments are the ones in question.

All of the toilets run into the city sewer system with a rather small 3” pipe. The faucets and bathtub are on a different line and, while I thought it connected with city sewer, it isn’t. After jack hammering the basement floor apart I discovered the the faucet/shower drain line goes straight into the ground and ends over a couple of big rocks. The water disappears instantly. The property is located about 100ft away from a creek. I can only assume this was how they did things back in the late 40s, or whoever built it didn’t do it by code(although unlikely as the addition made the building 2x wider and town has records on file for the addition).

Has anybody ever heard or seen something like this? Do you think it can handle 2 washers?

My first thought was to just tap into the sewer line but it’s rather small so I’m not sure if that’s the proper way to go. Granted washers aren’t going to run all the time and the water output isn’t going to be constant, but I’m just afraid it would be too big of a load for the drain to handle. Currently there is no washer/dryers in the 2 units but without laundromats near by its hard to find tenants.

 

[97prizm]

You may have to get a plumber involved at this point. I'm not sure of your local code. Can you make a split line so that you have two hoses going into the sewer line. Not sure if that could reduce the volume of water. I'd look at a high efficiency front loading washing machine. They use less water than top loaders.

 

[atikovi]

Wouldn't a plumber who knows local codes be the one to ask?

 

[avacado11]

You may have to get a plumber involved at this point. I'm not sure of your local code. Can you make a split line so that you have two hoses going into the sewer line. Not sure if that could reduce the volume of water. I'd look at a high efficiency front loading washing machine. They use less water than top loaders.

I can definitely do a split line, but I’m unsure if a 3” can handle a washer. 3” is up to code locally for sewer so I’m not worried about that. Just don’t want to get a call at 1am saying the washer is backed up.

 

[PimTac]

Do you have a clean out access to the sewer pipe in the basement?

 

[avacado11]

Wouldn't a plumber who knows local codes be the one to ask?

Plumbers cost money lol

I know everything is up to code(or, atleast grand fathered in) it’s wether or not the washer drain sequences will flood a 3” pipe.

 

[eljefino]

A pipe going into gravel is called a "dry well". They used to use them for grey water, lessened the load on one's septic. I would direct the washer there and not tell a soul. Reevaluate if you see suds on your lawn.

Be careful resizing your poop pipes, they have to be the correct diameter to keep flow at a speed that won't stop.

 

[avacado11]

Do you have a clean out access to the sewer pipe in the basement?

It does

 

[PimTac]

It does

Maybe you can use that to tie into the sewer with the new drain pipe. Extend the clean out. It’s easier said though. I am assuming the sewer pipe is cast iron.

 

[PimTac]

Actually if this is cast iron pipe you can still get fittings. A better way would be to cut the drain and install a Y fitting for the washer and the rest. You will probably have to go to a plumbing supply place or online.

 

[RhondaHonda]

I’m no plumber but a 3” pipe with a bit of slope should easily handle a washer. My downspouts are plumbed in 4” almost level and catch a lot more water than the 30 gallons a washer spits out.

 

[avacado11]

A pipe going into gravel is called a "dry well". They used to use them for grey water, lessened the load on one's septic. I would direct the washer there and not tell a soul. Reevaluate if you see suds on your lawn.

Be careful resizing your poop pipes, they have to be the correct diameter to keep flow at a speed that won't stop.

thanks that’s very helpful to know. I wasn’t sure of the term for it or if something like this is even a thing. I will check code and see if they still allow gray water these days, or what the rule is for older systems. This property used to be on septic system which would explain why it’s set up like this. Sewer didn’t exist in this village til the 50s.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

The old buildings had Cesspools under them.

 

[walterjay]

If you use it for washers provide front loading high efficiency washers. They only use about 15 gallons of water per load. A lot less than a tub full of water.

 

[avacado11]

Actually if this is cast iron pipe you can still get fittings. A better way would be to cut the drain and install a Y fitting for the washer and the rest. You will probably have to go to a plumbing supply place or online.

Yes it’s cast iron. I just added a Y fitting due to relocating toilet to the other side of the bathroom so i can definitely do it again for the washers.

Only worrying thing is there’s currently 3 toilets hooked up to it. Chances of all 3 toilets being flushed while 3 washers are running at the same time are low, but not zero. 3 inch pipe Looks rather small for all that water.

 

[PimTac]

Yes it’s cast iron. I just added a Y fitting due to relocating toilet to the other side of the bathroom so i can definitely do it again for the washers.

Only worrying thing is there’s currently 3 toilets hooked up to it. Chances of all 3 toilets being flushed while 3 washers are running at the same time are low, but not zero. 3 inch pipe Looks rather small for all that water.

The chances of all that are very slim. I wonder if a double wye would work? Take out the wye you installed and replace with the double wye.

 

[pghvolvo]

The house I grew up in back in the 1960's the borough decided it was time to install sewage lines on our street. The workers came to the door and ask my mom where the septic tank was. She said what septic tank we don't have one. I could just imagine the contractors face when they heard that one. He said you have to have one where does your waste water go? I don't know but we don't have a septic tank.

Seems the guy that built the house back in 1948 was a contractor and if you know anything about western Pennsylvania there was a lot of coal mining done in the area. It seems the builder and first owner of the home, well he went cheap and just drilled a hole down until he hit an abandoned coal mine. Parents said there was a pipe that ran all the way down into the mine under our house. Mom and Dad figured that our home had been sending water into that mine for at least 20 years. Needless to say the problem was rectified when the new sewage lines were installed in the late 1960's.

 

[walterjay]

Also install 1.6 gpm flushing toilets. The 3" should be able to handle both washers and 3 toilets. You can get those toilets for around $99.00

 

[RhondaHonda]

The chances of all that are very slim. I wonder if a double wye would work? Take out the wye you installed and replace with the double wye.

If you are saying a double wye where one side would be like a vent to the atmosphere, that would be a good backup solution. That way one end points up and if the pipe couldn’t handle the flow, it would just overflow out the top.

 

[walterjay]

If you are saying a double wye where one side would be like a vent to the atmosphere, that would be a good backup solution. That way one end points up and if the pipe couldn’t handle the flow, it would just overflow out the top.

It would have to be vented through the roof or with an auto vent. Neither of which would relieve a backup.