Ok to use cheap oil filters w/M1 or any other syn?

[widman]

Originally Posted By: Drivebelt
Most of this comes from these oil filter studies where they cut open filters and just look at them. Any oil filter study that simply looks at filters and dismisses the Fram based on a fiberboard endcap is completely stupid. I don't think their opinion is of much value if that is how they are going to evaluate a filter.

If there is a technical reason not to have fiberboard end cap's -- then argue that technical reason. If there is a test that shows fiberboard endcaps don't perform their function as well as metal endcaps, then present the tests you've done to show this. Otherwise, the opinion "I don't like the looks" of the endcaps is completely without merit. To then completely dismiss or disparage a product based simply on the looks of one of the components that you have no technical reason to do so -- is also without merit.

The ones I have cut open not only have the cardboard end caps, but the cardboard is not centered on the center shaft, leaving a metal to perforated metal seal. NOT good. So I've only cut two, but 2 out of 2 is enough for me.
Cut filters

 

[Cutehumor]

does mobil 1 EP list anywhere on their site or on their bottles that the oil is not guaranteed to 15k if not using their mobil 1`oil filters?

 

[Drivebelt]

Quote:
based on taking multiple Fram filters off after a 3k mile OCI and finding the element very loose inside (rattling around).
What element are you talking about -- what was rattling? I have serious doubts the filter element (resin-fiberboard) endcaps were compromised in any way because the design is not up to the task.

Quote:
The MC filters are very good for the money and my first choice in a value filter. I wish the applications were not so limited, though. My next choice for a value filter is ST, STP or Purolator.
Why -- because they have pretty metal endcaps? How do they filter compared to a Fram?

Originally Posted By: widman
The ones I have cut open not only have the cardboard end caps, but the cardboard is not centered on the center shaft, leaving a metal to perforated metal seal. NOT good. So I've only cut two, but 2 out of 2 is enough for me. Cut filters


This is nonsense. The purpose of the center shaft isn't to seal -- it's to hold the filter element from collapsing under the pressure of oil. The shaft itself has holes in it to let the oil through -- so it can't seal anything. The person who wrote this doesn't even seem to understand how an oil filter works.

The stuff people are coming up with to disparage Fram is becoming ridiculous. Someone says something was rattling inside his filter and right away the fiberboard endcaps are blamed for something and not doing their designed function. Someone sees a little gap between the center-shaft, and right away another rumor is started about some suppose design problem to be blamed on the endcaps -- that has no merit. These things then take on a life of their own like grade school rumors being spread around. If one of these people had 10 years designing, testing and engineering filters, was making the comments on one of these filter studies, then at least the person might have a clue what they were talking about. As it is, we get a bunch of amateurs cutting open filters and doing studies who don't even understand some of the basics of filters that end up spreading misinformation.

 

[Jim Spahr]

Let me caution people who defend Fram filters by saying: 'I used Fram filters for years and had no problems'. The history is that Fram was at one time a quality product made in the USA with quality construction and materials,i.e., no cardboard end caps. They decided to move their factories off shore and further lowered their costs by cheapening the product with cardboard endcaps and so on. They increased the budget on advertising to increase their market share. So the money went to TV ads and the cheapened orange filter became no. one in sales. So the bottom line is: if you are running long OCI or severe duty /racing/towing, beware using Fram filters.

 

[tirod]

I used to use Fram, too.

I was running a Fram on a '80 F150 300 CID when I lost oil pressure and seized the motor. Oh well, I thought, old motor.

Installed a "ups" block, rebuilt the head, etc and fired it up. Within weeks began having a low oil pressure problem, same symptoms leading up to the blown motor. I went to the parts house to get fittings to hook up a mechanical gauge for further diagnosis and the counter guy asked "why?" Explained the problem. He said - "Change to any - any - other leading make filter and see if the problem doesn't go away."

It did.

I few years later I worked for Autozone and asked why they stocked Fram. I was told they had just gotten them back on the shelf after quitting them due to the notorious number of engine failures traced to poor quality filter construction.

I subsequently worked for O'Reilly and was told the same thing. I also advised customers who explained they were having the symptom to change the filter out and see if it didn't stop the problem. I did get feedback from a few it did.

Fram has rightfully gained the perception that they had a bad time with filters - and lots of customers, like me, paid throught the nose for a rebuilt engine when we didn't need or couldn't afford one. My direct experience, and that of others, is to avoid them.

I am presently using the O'Reilly house brand which is, I'm told, Purolator - made in China. It's temporary as I have a lifter sticking issue I'm changing oil frequently to cure. Otherwise I would be using Wix. Cheap filters don't ever recover the cost of a damaged motor, so I'm cured of that false economy.

As for using cheap filters with expensive motor oil, a premium filter will give longer service life - and changing it halfway through the interval would give you some peace of mind. None the less, I also drove a VW with 164K on the original 36 hp motor, and like was said - just a screen, no filter. Gotta wonder if we should bother at all.

 

[John_K]

Only ever had two filter-related issues--one gasket sprung a leak, one the engine was making a funny noise and it stopped when I changed the filter without changing the oil. Both filters were Fram.

I noticed some of the auto parts stores around here had dropped Fram and wondered why.

John

 

[chet2]

jeezis, the wal mart filter is cheap, but very good..made by champion...i have used fram and if it caused problems, i didnt know about it

 

[tirod]

Not every orange filter is bad. It's just that when you make a lot more, the odds of making a bad one go up. The problem was that "zero defects" is a mandatory on oil filter construction, and somehow it got shuffled to a lower priority than sales. For Autozone, that apparently was too much perceived liability. They made a decision that apparently forced a reassessment at the maker level - fix a problem they didn't really want, or ignore it and lose a hard earned reputation. I still won't buy those filters, but they are probably screening them a little better now.

The P.S. to my story is that a tornado subsequently damaged the truck and I sold it to a young man needing a good engine. His had died from a sudden loss of oil pressure. I asked him what filter he had been using and it was orange . . .

 

[Brian Barnhart]

Originally Posted By: Jim Spahr
Let me caution people who defend Fram filters by saying: 'I used Fram filters for years and had no problems'. The history is that Fram was at one time a quality product made in the USA with quality construction and materials,i.e., no cardboard end caps. They decided to move their factories off shore and further lowered their costs by cheapening the product with cardboard endcaps and so on. They increased the budget on advertising to increase their market share. So the money went to TV ads and the cheapened orange filter became no. one in sales. So the bottom line is: if you are running long OCI or severe duty /racing/towing, beware using Fram filters.


I don't recommend Fram filters, but must respond to some of the statements in the quote above. Many Fram oil filters are still made in the USA, and most Fram automotive oil filters have had cardboard endcaps for decades.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Jim Spahr
Let me caution people who defend Fram filters by saying: 'I used Fram filters for years and had no problems'. The history is that Fram was at one time a quality product made in the USA with quality construction and materials,i.e., no cardboard end caps. They decided to move their factories off shore and further lowered their costs by cheapening the product with cardboard endcaps and so on. They increased the budget on advertising to increase their market share. So the money went to TV ads and the cheapened orange filter became no. one in sales. So the bottom line is: if you are running long OCI or severe duty /racing/towing, beware using Fram filters.
Fram filters have always had the same construction .Fram has been owned by a couple of corporations over the years .

 

[tirod]

I probably doesn't make much difference that the end cap itself is cardboard - there are some tough enhanced cellulose products out there. It more likely had to do with a recurring QC issue on that line with either bonding the cap, or the pressure relief valve.

As for making more bad filters, it's a simple math exercise - even if Fram had a lower rate of failure, the many more filters they make in a popular size, such as the classic Ford pattern, will mean more bad filters get to market.

High volume production is a game of odds for the consumer, that's why the best bet is to use not so popular items - Wix, Bosch, STP etc and get the odds in your favor. You do get what you pay for, a better filter does come with a slightly higher price. Even Fram goes to metal end caps on the better grades - that reveals how confident they are with the whole concept of cardboard.

Here's another way to see it - an engine with a 250,000 mile lifespan gets about 84 oil changes at 3k intervals. Saving a buck on the filter each time - $84 - sure won't pay the rebuild from a bad filter. And neither does the manufacturer.

Add to that, factory grade is the cost effective part chosen for mass production. We should be buying better than that - not low price discount stuff made even cheaper. It can actually cost us more in the long run.