OK I'm curious???

[ericthepig]

Salvage, I think it's a percentage thing. To be grp III, you have to be processed to the pt of XX% of impurities removed and I believe have other synthetic like characteristics. Meanwhile grp II+ is severly processed but not to the extent or with the same "synthetic characteristic" requirements of grp III.

Otherwise I'm thinking grp II+ and grp III are processed in very similar fashions. Someone plse advise if this is incorrect.

 

[HyperJinx]

Quote:

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Which oils are true synthetic?

Durango

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[ericthepig]

Salvage, here's the link -

http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq8.aspx

Some quotes -

"AMSOIL draws on this experience to formulate its products using a full range of synthetic base oil and additive technologies. AMSOIL will not be locked into any single base oil strategy. Performance is the bottom line. There are new types of base stocks being introduced, and there are additives that work best in one base stock or another.
.... (continuing quote)
AMSOIL views synthetic base oils the same as it views additives. Each has its unique set of properties, and AMSOIL, based on its extensive experience, combines them differently for superior performance in any given application or operating condition (gasoline, diesel, racing, transmission, gear, extended drain, extreme temperature, etc.). "

End of quotes -

So they're viewing their base stocks as they do their additives - ie, a pinch of this, a pinch of that. Note, Amsoil states in in this link that their non-XL oils are "based" on PAOs - but "based on" it would seem can mean any and all percentage values. %30 PAO oil can be said to be "based on PAO".

Having said all this, my opinion is that Amsoil is top tier - as good or better than all players. Grp IIIs are apparently in the process (ie, will soon) surpass PAOs in some metrics. PAOs are pretty much stuck at their present performance level as a base stock. Meanwhile there's much more wiggle room to fine tune a grp III (to the pt of outshining a PAO). Other links have been posted (from technical journals) that support what I just described - but I don't want to go look up those links either.

And one of those articles stated concisely why manufactures are moving to grp III - and that is, PAO is expensive and will stay expensive to produce. Meanwhile grp III are less expensive and are being engineered to be equivalent in most metrics to PAOs, and to soon surpass them in others.

 

[AEHaas]

“OK I'm curious now as to WHAT synthetic oils are pure/true”

I think the best answer to this question is that no motor oil you can buy for your car is pure and true anything.

No company gives out the exact formulation to any of their oils. Because of solvency problems expensive, high end ester based, group V oils will have some mineral based oils in the formula to help dissolve additives. There are many interactions here.

A “cheap” mineral based oil may have some, minimal amounts of “expensive” esters mixed in but in very small amounts.

I do not believe any oil is a true pure base of only one type of oil. I further believe that a blend of “synthetic” and a mineral based oil is superior to pure forms of either for the general passenger car.

The real line is a grey one. Worse yet is that one of the very expensive oils may work very well in one engine or driving situation and work less well in another situation or engine.

The owners manual in your new car is written as an average recommendation for the average driver in the average driving situation. You can fine tune the oil choice if you have enough experience and knowledge.

aehaas

 

[Dad2leia]

AEHaas, I thought that by now they would have figured a way to increase the solvency of the group V ester bases so that this wouldn't be quite as much of an issue.

I have to agree with you though, about a blend of the two components being able to outperform straight versions of each, but what blend? Would a three way blend of groups III, IV, and V be the magical formula along with a killer additive package (say SG or SL level)?

 

[double vanos]

Grp II oils are "severely refined" and when properly additivized actually make for a pretty good PCMO.

GRP III is severly hydrocracked crude (generally very high quality crude going in BTW) that after being processed is basically pure.

This is what Castrol set out to prove...they put an example of crude oil before the advertising council, then put forth a sample of the finished product and proved that it was same size molecules, in an engineered chain with characterics that were very close to PAO's.

Castrol also noted that that the process rendered crude oil into a base oil that in no way resembled the crude it came from. The after process refined base oil was clear, no color at all.

The advertising council agreed that Castrol had in deed created a synthetic product and let them continue to market the oil under the Syntec name.

Now, many years later, especially with the advent of the SM classification in full effect, GRP III oils rival PAO's except in the case of extreme cold, and I'm sure they are working on that.

A perusal of bitog UOA's indicate that GRP III oils do a pretty good job. Cheers!

 

[jonny-b]

One oil that is 100% synthetic, is Synlube.

 

[MatchboxCar]

Quote:

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Its not a chemical process its a physical process.

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Ummmm... No. It is most certainly a chemical process.

 

[Durango]

Thank you all for your interest in my question. I now have a much better understanding.

Durango

 

[Max_Wander]

Quote:

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A Group III is a chemically engineered from crude oil + hydrogen.

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In that case Margerine is chemically synthesized hydrocarbons and can thus be labelled 'synthetic' because they "react" it with hydrogen during hydrogenation.

"I can't believe it's synthetic! Margerine"

 

[gedcruise]

It is really irrelevant.
I used to think that it mattered whether an oil was a "true" syn, or merely a hydrocracked Grp III. I used to think that VOAs mattered.
What matters are the UOAs. The feedstock out of which an oil is made is irrelevant. What is relevant is how an oil actually performs in an engine and driving environment similar to yours.
The more time I spend here, the more I come to realize that all that actually matters is how an oil works in service, and that we cannot assume good performance based upon any given feedstock.

 

[OMCWankel]

An excellent post, gedcruise! On this board, we have seen good UOA’s from oils using group II base stock, as well as HOBS vegetable oil. The Tribologist’s art is in the blending of components. To pick an oil, look at the UOA’s on vehicles like your own (or ask Terry), and then do your own UOA’s. There is no other way to know for sure.

 

[ericthepig]

+1 gedcruise.