I bought a 99 camry with the v-6 and 90k miles and then heard about the sludge problem. Took off the front valve cover and NOTHING (no sludge). It remains a mystery that some have problems and the oil service is generally the same.
Oil sludge
- Thread starter LarryL
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I have a hunch that the services were not done, the type of service was extremely severe combined with bulk oil iffy lube type changes. The only sludged Toy motors I have ever seen were results of coolant contamination.
Another issue is the average owner is not going to change there PCV valve unless someone tells them to. Maintenance to them is Filling them with gas and parking it at the Walmart autocenter for an oilchange when it is convenient to go shopping and get an oil change.
Sludge does not "magically" appear without warning.. This is an issue of owners taking the Toyota name and assuming that the product will last forever with minimal maintenance (minimal being the walmart autocenter using soccer mom who will get around to the oil change whenever life is not so hectic!).
Has anyone dug to the root cause of these falures or are we taking internet complaints as literal? I was reading NHTSA complaints yesterday and some of these complaints I read for some vehicles were pure consumer ignorance. Front wheel drives that pull to the side under hard accleration?? Hello Torque steer?
My wife freaks out about noises, she was outside the Outlander the other day when I started it and then turned on the A/C she heard the Compressor and the Condensor fans kick on and thought the car was falling apart. It took some convincing to explain that those were normal sounds and she doesn't normally hear them from the cab with the radio on while logging her mileage log.
Do I think any car company is perfect? No. But I think when they have a reputation for bulletproof reliability they can attract owners who want reliabilty without any maintenance. Hey It's a (insert Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Infinti)It will last forever.. besides I have a busy lifestyle and don't have time for all that maintenance.. that's why I paid a premium for a "dependable" vehicle.
All Vehicles need reasonable maintenance and That is more than 3k mile Oil changes done by the local HS dropout while you are shopping for cheaper products at Walmart.
All offenses are intended.
Another issue is the average owner is not going to change there PCV valve unless someone tells them to. Maintenance to them is Filling them with gas and parking it at the Walmart autocenter for an oilchange when it is convenient to go shopping and get an oil change.
Sludge does not "magically" appear without warning.. This is an issue of owners taking the Toyota name and assuming that the product will last forever with minimal maintenance (minimal being the walmart autocenter using soccer mom who will get around to the oil change whenever life is not so hectic!).
Has anyone dug to the root cause of these falures or are we taking internet complaints as literal? I was reading NHTSA complaints yesterday and some of these complaints I read for some vehicles were pure consumer ignorance. Front wheel drives that pull to the side under hard accleration?? Hello Torque steer?
My wife freaks out about noises, she was outside the Outlander the other day when I started it and then turned on the A/C she heard the Compressor and the Condensor fans kick on and thought the car was falling apart. It took some convincing to explain that those were normal sounds and she doesn't normally hear them from the cab with the radio on while logging her mileage log.
Do I think any car company is perfect? No. But I think when they have a reputation for bulletproof reliability they can attract owners who want reliabilty without any maintenance. Hey It's a (insert Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Infinti)It will last forever.. besides I have a busy lifestyle and don't have time for all that maintenance.. that's why I paid a premium for a "dependable" vehicle.
All Vehicles need reasonable maintenance and That is more than 3k mile Oil changes done by the local HS dropout while you are shopping for cheaper products at Walmart.
All offenses are intended.
Not quite accurate. True, the older cars had shorter gears, that was to compensate for no overdrive. With an OD trans you can run much steeper gears and keep your RPM's way down. On that note my car has 3.08 gears from the factory and many others have even shorter gears. I do agree that pound for pound new engines work much harder than their older cousins.quote:
Originally posted by tdi jerry:
...THE ENGINES WORK HARDER THAN THE BIG BLOCKS LIKE I USE TO HAVE 1969 DODGE CHARGER WITH A 440 CU IN ENGINE WITH 375 HORSE POWER. THE OLD ENG TURNED LOWER RPM'S THAN THEY DO TODAY.THE REAR ENDS USE TO BE SOMETHING LIKE A 273/323 OR LIKE THAT...
JERRY
The three brands had different causes for the sludging.
VW had sludging only in the turbocharged engines which did not use the owner's manual-required synthetic oil.
Toyota had the sludging only in two or three lines of engines where they had made some changes in the PCV or other otherwise minor details.
I don't know the cause of the Dodge sludge.
A common factor here is that Americans feel a need for cheap oil and put no value on their time with 3000 mile or 5000 mile oil changes. European oil is much more expensive, much higher quality, individually spec'ed for each engine manufacturer, and has 10,000 to 20,000 oil drain intervals.
Of course, all these engines should have had no problems with the oil specified in the owner's manuals and the oil drain interval specified. Each generation of oil gets better the same time we're asking more of the oil with higher output from smaller engines, requiring low emissions from the engines with possible devices that may harm the engines, etc.\
My answer...use a top quality oil that remains good for longer oil drain intervals. I use Schaeffer. I'd feel equally protected using one of the other top quality oils.
Ken
VW had sludging only in the turbocharged engines which did not use the owner's manual-required synthetic oil.
Toyota had the sludging only in two or three lines of engines where they had made some changes in the PCV or other otherwise minor details.
I don't know the cause of the Dodge sludge.
A common factor here is that Americans feel a need for cheap oil and put no value on their time with 3000 mile or 5000 mile oil changes. European oil is much more expensive, much higher quality, individually spec'ed for each engine manufacturer, and has 10,000 to 20,000 oil drain intervals.
Of course, all these engines should have had no problems with the oil specified in the owner's manuals and the oil drain interval specified. Each generation of oil gets better the same time we're asking more of the oil with higher output from smaller engines, requiring low emissions from the engines with possible devices that may harm the engines, etc.\
My answer...use a top quality oil that remains good for longer oil drain intervals. I use Schaeffer. I'd feel equally protected using one of the other top quality oils.
Ken
Unfortunately, this is true for the newer manuals only, and that is part of the problem. My 2001 Passat manual explicitly says to use EITHER petroleum-based or synthetic oil, meeting at least one of 3 specifications, one of which is good old API SL.
I wonder how many VW sludge problems arise from PCV problems. ...
I wish I did. Since I have a 2.4L 4-cylinder, I THINK I am safe ...
For those who do alot of short-distance, stop-and-go urban driving and don't have "problem" engines, oil change frequency is arguably more important than oil quality. PERHAPS these folks are better off with dino on a 3K mile OCI than synthetic on a 5K.
I just found out today that I have a sludge problem in my 2000 Caravan with the 3.8 engine. I have had the van since day one and have every oil change documented. The oil changes average approx every 3000 miles. I am aware of the problems with the 2.7 engine, but has anyone else heard of problems with the 3.8? This really has me upset and perplexed as I have been so careful with oil changes. Thanks for your help.
How serious is your sludge problem? If it is not too late, Auto-RX may help. Does your car get mostly city driving? How is your PCV system? What brand of oil do you generally use? filter? Does your engine take the minuscule K-car oil filter, or a larger one? How big is your sump?
I have a '97 Camry 4-Cyl, which is one of the "Sludge Motors", but not as bad as the V6. I think that some of you are wrong in claiming that the Toyota sludge problem is due ONLY to poor maintenance. Those engines are just plain hard on oil, and this was a result of engine design choices to run the head hot, small oil passages to the head, small coolant passages to the head, and a weak PCV system. This makes these engines run with smaller margin and are therefore sensitive to maintenance and climate. In other words, I think there is more to this problem than poor maintenance. I bought this car new and changed my own oil & filter every 3000 miles using Pennzoil Conventional 10w30 and, although the condition of the oil was OK (visually), I was always surprised that it was clearly weaker than what I drained from my other cars with the same care, especially in the summer months. I finally changed to M1 last summer to get more thermal margin, and am pleased with it.
Toyota builds nice cars, and I still like my Camry, but they made some design mistakes on the 1997-2001 engines. I think that the consensus now is that those problems have been fixed in the engines introduced in 2002.
Toyota builds nice cars, and I still like my Camry, but they made some design mistakes on the 1997-2001 engines. I think that the consensus now is that those problems have been fixed in the engines introduced in 2002.
The dealer is replacing both heads under my extended warranty. They indicate that the sludge problem is most serious. I have the oil changed at a local Goodyear store and they use their filter. The van is mostly driven in town with one or two major road trips each year. Probably once a month it is driven on the highway for several hours.
Max, I gotta think that there is high probability that the headgasket(s) have allowed antifreeze into the oil causing the sludge. Since they have to replace the gaskets and the heads are sludged they just put new ones on. You have to watch your antifreeze level like a hawk on these newer cars.
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