Oil Research for Hydraulic Flat Tappet Ford FE

[BrocLuno]

Flat out the best engine builder you can drive to (and have a mini vacation is) http://www.lewisracingengines.com/ They are great folks and their work is 110%. They build engines that get crated and sent all over the world to very discrimination customers. Email them and see what they say

Next best bet is S&S in Hayward. Superb shop and outstanding work

After that, it's Sacto for #3 ...

If you need some help, Ford Performance in Campbell, CA is a good shop and they have a knowledgeable staff who can get you pointed straight

I built and raced FE's back in the day. You can get edgy with the cam, but it won't really help. The limit on street performance is port flow - not cam selection. For 2,500 to 5,500 kick in the seat of your pants, a semi-aggressive Cobra-Jet profile will do it. That will run with OEM springs. I always used Isky retainers and keepers.

If you are goinna run hydraulic flat tappets (?) or solids, I'd go Crower High Lube or Howards all the way. Guaranteed face hardness and profile, and the extra oiling will keep the cam alive forever

 

[ACHiPo]

Here's the Shell Rotella data sheet for 15w40

[img:center]file:///D:/Cobra%20Docs%20and%20Photos/Rotella%20T4%2015W40%20TDS.pdf[/img]

And the response I got from Shell:
Quote:
For the flat tappets, I’d use the Rotella as it does have more zinc/phosphorus than gasoline engine oils. The Zinc is 1200 ppm for most grades including Rotella T4 15W-40.
As for the numbers you’ve provided, I can’t correlate that to a zinc requirement. Your cam manufacturer will have break in instructions and will probably require extra anti-wear additives during break in...these levels are essentially unchanged in the API CK-4 updated from last December.
1100 on the phos.


Here's what I received from Chevron:
Quote:
Delo 400 SDE 15W40 uses an ashless additive package to replace the lower zinc & phosphorus levels which were required for Chevron to meet emission requirements in recent introduction of API CK-4 category. We have found the ashless antiwear package improves oxidation control, wear protection, and piston deposit control in both older & newer engines. Delo 400 SDE 15W40 can be mixed with Delo 400 LE 15W40. Delo 400 LE 15W40 will no longer be available in quart bottles, jugs, or case quantities. Please refer to data sheets attached for more details. In your older engine the engine will be protected with the newer oil.

I'm leaning toward the Rotella with its more traditional ZDDP formulation. A buddy of mine is knowledgeable about the Chevron chemistry, and says it's quite good, but if I use Delo I should still add ZDDP as the ashless detergent/anti-wear doesn't replace the function of zinc and phosphorous for tappet lifters.

 

[ACHiPo]

Oops. Looks like I need help posting the pdfs?

 

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Here is one answer for you:

https://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/classic-and-vintage/articles/flat-tappet-cams-in-classic-cars/

Good article. Thanks. Amsoil is a possibility, as is Brad Penn, but both are ~$10/qt. I like the price of the Rotella if it works!

 

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
Long thread from guys who live and breathe Ford FEs. After the first page, the amount of flame gets a bit stark; to put it mildly, these guys do not hold back.

But the comments from Lykins who literally builds them for a living, and the post titled "Follow good mechanical techniques." are worth reading, along with one or more comments to be sure it'll fire quickly.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1507829733

Kevin


My takeaway from that thread is that one should probably go roller

do yah Think?

 

[ACHiPo]

Can't figure out how to post pdfs, so here are the links to Chevron's and Shell's data sheets:

Delo 400 SDE (new formulation, lower Zn an P, ashless additives):
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=481951&docFormat=PDF

Delo 400 LE (old formulation, no longer available, although supplies may exist):
https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=415568

Shell Rotella T4 15w40 TDS (no chemical info on the data sheet, just what the rep included in the email):
http://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/1e8bea87-238f-473e-9b3e-8bc37b9d3d43.pdf

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: ACHiPo

Good article. Thanks. Amsoil is a possibility, as is Brad Penn, but both are ~$10/qt. I like the price of the Rotella if it works!


Glad to help... The Preferred Customer / purchase points programs will bring the pricing down as well plus it gets shipped to your door which is always nice.

 

[BrocLuno]

This is my current go-to oil for rebuild break-ins: https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF Available on amazon easily enough. 1,200 PPM ZDDP and a really tough oil

That's for flat tappet engines (I don't build rollers). I do use Howard's Direct Lube or Crower Cam Saver lifters, unless it's a SBC and can get real Delphi OEM lifters ... Fords factory lifters are good too.

Only use Crane Cams assembly paste. Prime the oil pump before you spin the motor and you'll be fine. Keep it at 2,000 or above for 10 minutes after first fire if using OEM lifters, and all will be well. Cam and OEM lifters are lubed by sling oil off the crank, so gotta sling some

If using Crower or Howards, you can let it idle after about 5 minutes

 

[Merkava_4]

Ford FE is the 390 and 428 correct ?

 

[ag_ghost]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Ford FE is the 390 and 428 correct ?

332,352,390,406,427,428

Kevin

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, and of those the 406 was a sentimental fav

That's a far as they could safely bore the 390 in the early '60's until they revised the block casting. More than one 390 badged Ford or Merc running around with full house 406 under the hood in say '63~4

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
332,352,390,406,427,428

Kevin


Thanks.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Ford FE is the 390 and 428 correct ?

332,352,390,406,427,428

Kevin


And 360 (truck), 410 (Mercury)

 

[ag_ghost]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ag_ghost
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Ford FE is the 390 and 428 correct ?

332,352,390,406,427,428

And 360 (truck), 410 (Mercury)

Good catch; I woke up this morning realizing I forgot those two.

Kevin

 

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
This is my current go-to oil for rebuild break-ins: https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=413394&docFormat=PDF Available on amazon easily enough. 1,200 PPM ZDDP and a really tough oil

That looks like really good stuff for a flat tappet motor. I’m surprised though as I didn’t think Chevron still made oil with ZDDP that high.

 

[BrocLuno]

They do for "off road" equipment and that is what this oil is targeted at

 

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
They do for "off road" equipment and that is what this oil is targeted at

Here's the response I got from Chevron regarding SD...

My email:
Quote:
Doug,
I just came across Delo SD 400. It looks like Chevron still makes and markets it, and it has 1200 ppm of ZDDP. Could this be a better choice for my hydraulic flat tappet application than SDE?

482 Ford FE
Stock rockers and springs
Edelbrock head
Moderate street cam:
Intake Duration: 274 (230 @ 0.050")
Exhaust Duration: 286 (236 @ 0.050")
Intake valve lift: 0.560"
Exhaust valve lift: 0.560"
Lobe separation: 110 degrees


Chevron's response:
Quote:
Delo 400 sd is not a current Chevron product