Ha, one easy question. Nigeria is broke due to bad government.
"Oil is NOT a fossil fuel"
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Yet with a post that long, you provide NO method as to derive artificial pricing, as well as not providing a % in the amount we should reduce consumption. The entire point of my post.
Forget about pricing for the moment and admit to its value in avoided costs. What it costs to duplicate its utility. That's the value it contains in the "free" energy that you appear to want depleted in the most radical manner possible ..and to the folly of whomever/whatever simply due to not taking that in to account.
That's what the stuff is really worth. What you would do if you didn't have it and had to replace it. That's the only way one could plausibly present the (false) notion of "DON'T WORRY!! THE MARKET WILL ALLOW YOU TO LIVE JUST LIKE YOU DO TODAY!! BURN IT UP!!! THE MARKET WILL ASSURE YOUR COMFORT AND LIESURE".
Does anyone really believe that?
Yet with a post that long, you provide NO method as to derive artificial pricing, as well as not providing a % in the amount we should reduce consumption. The entire point of my post.
Forget about pricing for the moment and admit to its value in avoided costs. What it costs to duplicate its utility. That's the value it contains in the "free" energy that you appear to want depleted in the most radical manner possible ..and to the folly of whomever/whatever simply due to not taking that in to account.
That's what the stuff is really worth. What you would do if you didn't have it and had to replace it. That's the only way one could plausibly present the (false) notion of "DON'T WORRY!! THE MARKET WILL ALLOW YOU TO LIVE JUST LIKE YOU DO TODAY!! BURN IT UP!!! THE MARKET WILL ASSURE YOUR COMFORT AND LIESURE".
Does anyone really believe that?
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Forget about pricing for the moment and admit to its value in avoided costs. What it costs to duplicate its utility.
You've got an oxymoron going on there, but I'll play along.
EVERYTHING is limited. By your logic, we have to pay for iron, copper, aluminum, etc. as though we have to make it in a lab. After all it's "free" in the ground...just like anything else that is dug up.
What happens when they run out? What will replace lithium when we run out of that for the batteries required in a post hydrocarbon world?
Water that is pumped from a well is (as Shannow puts it) mined, and not replaced. We should be paying the same price for this water as though it was desalinated.
How about uranium? It to is limited and very valuable. How many people are saying that uranium is too cheap? Don't hear that one much on the nightly news. If we double the price of uranium, will people's lives be better for it?
Forget about pricing for the moment and admit to its value in avoided costs. What it costs to duplicate its utility.
You've got an oxymoron going on there, but I'll play along.
EVERYTHING is limited. By your logic, we have to pay for iron, copper, aluminum, etc. as though we have to make it in a lab. After all it's "free" in the ground...just like anything else that is dug up.
What happens when they run out? What will replace lithium when we run out of that for the batteries required in a post hydrocarbon world?
Water that is pumped from a well is (as Shannow puts it) mined, and not replaced. We should be paying the same price for this water as though it was desalinated.
How about uranium? It to is limited and very valuable. How many people are saying that uranium is too cheap? Don't hear that one much on the nightly news. If we double the price of uranium, will people's lives be better for it?
I believe it costs Saudi Arabia about $2 to produce a barrel. In the US, about $10. More like $30 if you're talking about using oil sands. You can figure the profit margin yourself.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
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belive it or not the numbers are widely publicized that oil production figures have been on a downhill slide since the 70's.. especially in America. Oil is finite resource, and even if the earth was some how making it I doubt it would be produced at the levels currently being consumed (~31 billion barrels a year, 20+ million barrels a day consumed in the USA alone.) Peak Oil phenomenon has been proven over and over again. Finite resources cannot meet infinite supply.
Originally Posted By: MarkC
I believe it costs Saudi Arabia about $2 to produce a barrel. In the US, about $10. More like $30 if you're talking about using oil sands. You can figure the profit margin yourself.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
So you are saying that oil prices should be much CHEAPER than they are now?
And France gets 80% of it's power from nukes so you might want to ask them about how relevant its price is.
No info on where the helium is coming from in oil deposits?
I believe it costs Saudi Arabia about $2 to produce a barrel. In the US, about $10. More like $30 if you're talking about using oil sands. You can figure the profit margin yourself.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
So you are saying that oil prices should be much CHEAPER than they are now?
And France gets 80% of it's power from nukes so you might want to ask them about how relevant its price is.
No info on where the helium is coming from in oil deposits?
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Peak Oil phenomenon has been proven over and over again.
Do you have a source of information? Is oil anymore rare than it was before?
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Doomsayers to the contrary, the world contains far more recoverable oil than was believed even 20 years ago. Between 1976 and 1996, estimated global oil reserves grew 72%, to 1.04 trillion barrels. Much of that growth came in the past 10 years, with the introduction of computers to the oil patch, which made drilling for oil more predictable.
http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
Peak Oil phenomenon has been proven over and over again.
Do you have a source of information? Is oil anymore rare than it was before?
Quote:
Doomsayers to the contrary, the world contains far more recoverable oil than was believed even 20 years ago. Between 1976 and 1996, estimated global oil reserves grew 72%, to 1.04 trillion barrels. Much of that growth came in the past 10 years, with the introduction of computers to the oil patch, which made drilling for oil more predictable.
http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
Tempest, on a well by well basis, the production curve is well established.
Simple statistical analysis, superimposing well over well yields the same curve.
How can there NOT be a peak in oil production followed by a decline for a finite (or mostly such in our lifetimes) resource, unless the tooth fairy is magically transforming fairy dust into oil, at a greater then we are sucking it out ?
Simple statistical analysis, superimposing well over well yields the same curve.
How can there NOT be a peak in oil production followed by a decline for a finite (or mostly such in our lifetimes) resource, unless the tooth fairy is magically transforming fairy dust into oil, at a greater then we are sucking it out ?
Originally Posted By: labman
Ha, one easy question. Nigeria is broke due to bad government.
bad government that is sponsored by huge oil consumer (i.e. China), just like the House of Saud is sponsored by US and Western Europe.
Ha, one easy question. Nigeria is broke due to bad government.
bad government that is sponsored by huge oil consumer (i.e. China), just like the House of Saud is sponsored by US and Western Europe.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
In all of my observations of existence, there are absolutely no solutions. Merely exchanges of problems.
I like the quote "If it's too good to be true then it probably is".
Is there a difference when applied to "suckers", or market focussed "thinkers"
It's why I get the giggles with the free energy "science" entropy says that it's not free, and can never be.
There will always be more nett sacrifice than benefit.
In all of my observations of existence, there are absolutely no solutions. Merely exchanges of problems.
I like the quote "If it's too good to be true then it probably is".
Is there a difference when applied to "suckers", or market focussed "thinkers"
It's why I get the giggles with the free energy "science" entropy says that it's not free, and can never be.
There will always be more nett sacrifice than benefit.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: MarkC
I believe it costs Saudi Arabia about $2 to produce a barrel. In the US, about $10. More like $30 if you're talking about using oil sands. You can figure the profit margin yourself.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
So you are saying that oil prices should be much CHEAPER than they are now?
And France gets 80% of it's power from nukes so you might want to ask them about how relevant its price is.
No info on where the helium is coming from in oil deposits?
I'm just telling you how much it actually costs to produce oil, you can infer whatever you want comparing the production cost to the price consumers pay.
Uranium. like a lot of things, is also a finite resource. When/if it goes into heavier use and becomes more scarce, the cost will, of course rise.
Helium?
"Helium is only found in useful concentrations in the 'fossil' gases emitted by relatively a small number of oil and natural gas wells with especially impermeable caps (in the US, mainly in Texas). The helium was trapped and concentrated there after it was generated by radioactive decay of uranium and thorium in the crust and mantle. Helium is on a depletion curve closely related to that of natural gas "
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/11/30/233433/82
It seems you just want to live in a fantasy world where everything is easy and nothing ever runs out.
Originally Posted By: MarkC
I believe it costs Saudi Arabia about $2 to produce a barrel. In the US, about $10. More like $30 if you're talking about using oil sands. You can figure the profit margin yourself.
Your points about uranium are ...pointless. The world's economy doesn't run on uranium, at least not yet.
So you are saying that oil prices should be much CHEAPER than they are now?
And France gets 80% of it's power from nukes so you might want to ask them about how relevant its price is.
No info on where the helium is coming from in oil deposits?
I'm just telling you how much it actually costs to produce oil, you can infer whatever you want comparing the production cost to the price consumers pay.
Uranium. like a lot of things, is also a finite resource. When/if it goes into heavier use and becomes more scarce, the cost will, of course rise.
Helium?
"Helium is only found in useful concentrations in the 'fossil' gases emitted by relatively a small number of oil and natural gas wells with especially impermeable caps (in the US, mainly in Texas). The helium was trapped and concentrated there after it was generated by radioactive decay of uranium and thorium in the crust and mantle. Helium is on a depletion curve closely related to that of natural gas "
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/11/30/233433/82
It seems you just want to live in a fantasy world where everything is easy and nothing ever runs out.
I noted in that link that oil is considered a real bargain by some!
It is stated that the gasoline derived from a barrel of oil is equivalent to a healthy and strong human's work output for a whole year! Super cheap by comparison!
But concerning the original topic, I am wary of anyone overstating their case. It often does more damage than the opposing side.
I have not found any explanations concerning ALL types of rock , sea beds, etc., to show how oil retains it's pressure for more than a very short duration. Yet it did and does.
N
It is stated that the gasoline derived from a barrel of oil is equivalent to a healthy and strong human's work output for a whole year! Super cheap by comparison!
But concerning the original topic, I am wary of anyone overstating their case. It often does more damage than the opposing side.
I have not found any explanations concerning ALL types of rock , sea beds, etc., to show how oil retains it's pressure for more than a very short duration. Yet it did and does.
N
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It seems you just want to live in a fantasy world where everything is easy and nothing ever runs out.
Yeah, that's why I said in a previous post:
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The market picked and provided oil. It will do the same for the replacement.
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When/if it goes into heavier use and becomes more scarce, the cost will, of course rise.
The market at work? What will the replacement for uranium be? How about lithium? Lead?
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=174750
LOTS of flaws in the biotic theory at that link.
Abiotic hydrocarbons at the Lost City:
http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_articles/080201_LostCity/index_EN
Meteorites with organic carbon:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-2008-0981.ch013
As well as on Titan:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56480
It seems you just want to live in a fantasy world where everything is easy and nothing ever runs out.
Yeah, that's why I said in a previous post:
Quote:
The market picked and provided oil. It will do the same for the replacement.
Quote:
When/if it goes into heavier use and becomes more scarce, the cost will, of course rise.
The market at work? What will the replacement for uranium be? How about lithium? Lead?
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=174750
LOTS of flaws in the biotic theory at that link.
Abiotic hydrocarbons at the Lost City:
http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/archive_articles/080201_LostCity/index_EN
Meteorites with organic carbon:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/bk-2008-0981.ch013
As well as on Titan:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56480
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Oil at 35,000 ft (6.6 miles) deep.
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7055818
Deepest dino fossil - 1.4 miles.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0426_060426_dinos.html
How did all of those fossils get 5 miles deeper into the rock so they could turn into oil?
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The world's oil reserves have been increasing each year since the bust of 1998 and 1999. In 2000, the world's oil reserves were 1.016 trillion barrels. Since then, crude oil reserves have increased almost one-third (31 percent), and natural gas reserves have increased one-fifty (22 percent).
http://www.fwbusinesspress.com/display.php?id=9155
Peak oil indeed...
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"With the White Tiger Field in Vietnam, 90% of the production is coming from basement rock, where there were never any fossils," argues C. Warren Hunt, a geologist in Calgary. "What they've been teaching us in school about oil coming from fossils is wrong."
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2003/02/17/337289/index.htm
http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7055818
Deepest dino fossil - 1.4 miles.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0426_060426_dinos.html
How did all of those fossils get 5 miles deeper into the rock so they could turn into oil?
Quote:
The world's oil reserves have been increasing each year since the bust of 1998 and 1999. In 2000, the world's oil reserves were 1.016 trillion barrels. Since then, crude oil reserves have increased almost one-third (31 percent), and natural gas reserves have increased one-fifty (22 percent).
http://www.fwbusinesspress.com/display.php?id=9155
Peak oil indeed...
Quote:
"With the White Tiger Field in Vietnam, 90% of the production is coming from basement rock, where there were never any fossils," argues C. Warren Hunt, a geologist in Calgary. "What they've been teaching us in school about oil coming from fossils is wrong."
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2003/02/17/337289/index.htm
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Yeah, that's why I said in a previous post:
Quote:
The market picked and provided oil. It will do the same for the replacement.
Yes, the market will.
..but what you've absolutely avoided stating, one way or the other, is if you think that it will maintain the status quo. That is, that people can continue on in 100% ignorant bliss ..100% confident that "THE MARKET" will allow them to continue on in ignorant bliss since it will provide ALL of their needs as they perceive it.
Now before your tag back with something that proposes that I'm saying another method will be better, I state nothing of the sort. I merely suggest that it's only a fool who thinks that "magic of the market" is going to provide anything. It can only provide what is available for distribution. It makes no assurance that there is enough to distribute.
That is, 4/5 of the worlds population may need to be culled for "The market" to provide "enough".
Isn't that a possible requirement of "the market" for it to provide?
Ah enabling and neuro-numbing power of the "they" and "the market will". "They'll" do something about it. "The market" will provide for all of your needs.
Fail.
Yeah, that's why I said in a previous post:
Quote:
The market picked and provided oil. It will do the same for the replacement.
Yes, the market will.
..but what you've absolutely avoided stating, one way or the other, is if you think that it will maintain the status quo. That is, that people can continue on in 100% ignorant bliss ..100% confident that "THE MARKET" will allow them to continue on in ignorant bliss since it will provide ALL of their needs as they perceive it.
Now before your tag back with something that proposes that I'm saying another method will be better, I state nothing of the sort. I merely suggest that it's only a fool who thinks that "magic of the market" is going to provide anything. It can only provide what is available for distribution. It makes no assurance that there is enough to distribute.
That is, 4/5 of the worlds population may need to be culled for "The market" to provide "enough".
Isn't that a possible requirement of "the market" for it to provide?
Ah enabling and neuro-numbing power of the "they" and "the market will". "They'll" do something about it. "The market" will provide for all of your needs.
Fail.
The Market, Tempest, is not some benevolent deity. It can't sell what isn't there. Sooner or later, petroleum will become scarce enough that we'll have to either find an alternative, or adjust our level of energy use severely. This won't be determined by The Market. Not until the last dime has been wrung out of consumers by the industry will viable alternatives be readily and "affordably" available.
As for the geology stuff, read more and understand more, please.
Petroleum deposits, despite people like us referring to oil as dino juice, have small organisms, such as algae, Foraminifera plankton, etc. as the source. There are other Lower Tertiary level oil deposits in the world other than the one you referenced. Hint: Marine or lacustrian (lake) sedimentary deposits in most cases.
As for the geology stuff, read more and understand more, please.
Petroleum deposits, despite people like us referring to oil as dino juice, have small organisms, such as algae, Foraminifera plankton, etc. as the source. There are other Lower Tertiary level oil deposits in the world other than the one you referenced. Hint: Marine or lacustrian (lake) sedimentary deposits in most cases.
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"The market" will provide for all of your needs.
It does now, why wouldn't it in the future? The free market has lead to the exponential growth in human well being in the last 225 years, I see no reason for it to do any different in the future...if allowed to operate.
The market is the reason we have this website, isles of different types of oil to talk about, and so much food that child "obesity" is the problem of the day rather than kids starving to death as is common in other parts of the world.
None of this should be the case with your logic.
Do you think we should be using less oil than we are currently using in order to put off this doomsday scenario that you profess?
"The market" will provide for all of your needs.
It does now, why wouldn't it in the future? The free market has lead to the exponential growth in human well being in the last 225 years, I see no reason for it to do any different in the future...if allowed to operate.
The market is the reason we have this website, isles of different types of oil to talk about, and so much food that child "obesity" is the problem of the day rather than kids starving to death as is common in other parts of the world.
None of this should be the case with your logic.
Do you think we should be using less oil than we are currently using in order to put off this doomsday scenario that you profess?
Mark, there are no biologic activities going on on Mars, Titan, and meteorites. How do you explain the organic hydrocarbons found on those planets, as well as the ones at the Lost City?
As for the market, see above.
As for the market, see above.
I doubt you and your fellow Las Vegas inhabitants are going to enjoy what the market brings your way in terms of the cost of water in the future.
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